What political matches could Aegon pull for Aerys and Rhaella if he decided he had enough of his children’s selfishness and wanted to protect Rhaella? I have seen Doran suggested as they are the same age. Or Steffon but that feels like double dipping for the Stormlands.

Steffon and Doran make for more traditional matches for House Targaryen, it’s true, but Aegon V wasn’t all that interested in following Targaryen traditions as much as he was interested in building a network of great lords tied to the crown through marriage to help him enact his smallfolk reforms. He had the Baratheons from Rhaelle’s marriage to Ormund already, and I reckon that the other lords might look askance at Aegon showing inordinate marital favor to the Baratheonsl; it wasn’t that long ago, after all, that the Laughing Storm declared independence and rebelled against the crown, and the other lords whose Houses were promised–and then deprived of– a Targaryen match would not take kindly to the crown awarding the rebellious Baratheons two marital prizes while dismissing the similar insult dealt to them. As for Doran, he is a possibility, though Aegon’s mother and grandmother were Dornish so another Dornish match, while the Blackfyre threat persisted, might not be a good idea. Aegon might also figure that he had the support of his cousins in Sunspear, and that securing another great house’s support was more prudent.

Instead, I think it’s likely that the politically-minded Aegon and his queen Betha, an architect for her children’s betrothal, would pick matches for Aerys and Rhaella with an eye towards making the alliances they hoped for with the previous generation. They’d have an opportunity for reconciliation with the angered Houses that were left bereft of their promised Targaryen match. Aegon won Storm’s End back when he wed Rhaelle to Ormund to make up for Duncan’s broken betrothal, but the Tullys, Tyrells and Redwynes were left with nothing to show for the promise of a royal match. In that vein, I think Aegon would go for Hoster Tully for Rhaella, and either Janna or Mina Tyrell, whichever is older since there is a significant age gap as it is so no need to make it bigger, for Aerys.

image

@riana-one replied to your post “what do you think of the crack/au pairing of lysa tully and oberyn…”

If Lysa has her bastard, Holster would be scrambling for a match. A prince is golden compared to a household knight or a third son of a vassal. If Lysa gets to keep her baby she would love any man and the Martells would treat her right

Fair enough, but this relies on the possibility that Hoster does not forcibly abort Lysa and hide the whole thing to save her hand’s worth and himself the scandal, which is something Hoster is always going to do unless he was a different person. This also doesn’t address why the Martells would be interested in Lysa after the murder of Elia and her children, or the part where Oberyn tried to raise Dorne for Viserys, making it that Lysa could end up as a hostage in Dorne as far as Hoster knows. It’s too tremulous of a political position for Hoster to agree to, and the Martells have no reason to want the publicly disgraced daughter of one of the rebel leaders if there’s nothing in it for them.

@nooneeverlookedforagirl reblogged your post
“what do you think of the crack/au pairing of lysa tully and oberyn…”

But maybe a ship meant to bring Dorne
(and potentially by extention Rhaegar?) into the alliance could be
interesting. Particularly if Lysa ended up birthing that bastard in
Dorne.

We’d get a happy AU where Elia lives I think, even if we’d have to drag Rhaegar into it kicking and screaming.

If Elia is already married to Rhaegar, the chances of the SA plotters
including Dorne in their plans are slim to none. We don’t know what the
plan of the SA bloc was exactly, but checking the crown’s power and
strong-arming it through a council of powerful lords seems like the most
likely scenario. To that effect, an alliance with Rhaegar would not be in
the cards since the SA’s main objective did not stop with Aerys but
surpassed it to Rhaegar himself. Why would Rhaegar accept such a
restriction on his power? What’s to stop him from foiling their plans or going to Aerys with them to restore his father’s trust in him?
Relatedly, Rhaegar marriage to Elia firmly puts Dorne on the crown’s
side, so approaching the Martells with their plot wouldn’t only be
infeasible, but also blatantly dangerous.

what do you think of the crack/au pairing of lysa tully and oberyn martell? (say jon arryn dies early in their marriage, or lysa just isn’t married during the rebellion). (Also, I LOVE your stuff. Your GOT/The terrible R/L/Elia storyline salt is like a balm to my pain for that horrible butchery)

Thanks so much. It was a bit cathartic to yell my frustration out and I have to say I was pleasantly surprised by the reaction to my infuriated yelling. I’ve seen a lot of dismissal of Elia so to have such a reaction was honestly a breath of fresh air.

I’ve never really thought of LysaOberyn before, probably due to the fact that Hoster Tully’s ambitions would not allow for this match to happen. Oberyn may have the title of Prince but he is still a second son with nothing to inherit, so he is very removed from what Hoster requires in a match. All of Hoster’s attempted betrothals for his daughters were either to Lords Paramount or heirs to Lords Paramount so that’s a clear indication of what matches he favored, so Oberyn, a second son who got pushed down the line of succession by every child Doran had, is not really an option as far as Hoster is concerned. The rebellion and the death of Elia and her children would make this match very unlikely because Oberyn would not want to marry the daughter of one of the leaders of a rebellion that condoned his sister’s murder, and Hoster would not risk sending his daughter to Dorne where she could easily be made a hostage against him, especially amid the rumblings of Oberyn trying to raise Dorne for Viserys. There is no upside for either party to attempt that betrothal, especially in light of Doran and Oberyn’s plans for Targaryen restoration. Moreover, in the case of Lysa marrying Jon and him dying shortly afterwards, this allows Hoster to find a good match for Lysa without the knowledge of her previous dalliances made known to her husband as he’d been forced to do with Jon Arryn, since a maidenhood would not be expected from a widow. Perhaps he would not be able to secure a Lord Paramount this time (though I wonder if he might still try for Willas Tyrell anyway. Depends on Willas’ date of birth, I guess), but a match that installs Lysa as the chatelaine of a prominent second tier House is still as good as any. Or he might try for Stannis Baratheon, if Jon dies before Stannis is betrothed to Selyse. A match with the king’s brother who sits on his small council is nothing to sneeze at, after all.

On the personal level, and if we assume that this match would happen, the good news is that Oberyn would not treat Lysa with the cool detached courtesy Jon Arryn showed her as a result of her previous affair, which makes for a better relationship. However, there is the issue of Lysa’s forced abortion and how that might make her respond to the presence Oberyn’s daughters. In and of itself, having bastards raised in their noble parent’s household is unusual and enough to garner the resentment of their spouse, but to be surrounded by Oberyn’s four bastard daughters, acknowledged and favored and growing alongside their trueborn cousins, might be harder on Lysa who wasn’t allowed to keep her child but now has to live with her husband’s bastards. That’s a source of resentment right there that could easily grow, especially if Lysa has trouble bearing a living child as in OTL.

Good news is that she’d be far, far away from Petyr which is good for her personally, and infinitely better for the realm. Yay?

feijoalife:

amphitritie:

amphitritie:

miraculoushufflepufftrash:

amphitritie:

someone told me americans don’t have roundabouts and i’ve been thinking about it all week

how

Wtf is a roundabout?

i’m shook

it has come to my attention some people are not acquainted with roundabouts (latin roundus boutus). here is a handy guide for spotting different types in the wild:

this is a common/garden roundabout in its natural habitat. it prefers rain and dying grass as food sources.

this is its child. it may appear small and unassuming, but just watch it take down even the mighty range rover as it tries to make the tight bend.

sometimes they have twins instead. they resemble a pair of glasses, or tits. i once watched an old lady drive straight through both unharmed. would not recommend. deceptively dangerous.

this is a fancy ass roundabout, the average roundabout’s cousin. it has just returned from its gap year in thailand. its hobbies include condescendingly explaining simple concepts using complicated words and smiling with an air of superiority.

lastly, the most feared kind. only the bravest may take on this wild beast and survive. this is the magic roundabout. its young grow around it in grotesque sacs, bewildering the unlucky driver just trying to pop to the shops to get some milk. it is too late to save him now. tell his family he loved them. this is the end. the magic roundabout is the only true god. fear him.

where da fuck is that last one located so i can never go there in my life because what the actual hell

joannalannister:

“Pregnancy Cravings” by @tosquinha, inspired by this beautiful gifset by @sansaregina

“Tywin dreamed that his son would be a great knight, that his daughter would be a queen. He dreamed they would be so strong and brave and beautiful that no one would ever laugh at them.”

My idea behind this piece was to depict Joanna, pregnant with the twins, enjoying a quiet morning with Tywin at Casterly Rock, debating about whether the baby will be a boy or a girl, and sharing their hopes and ambitions for their first child. @tosquinha did such a beautiful job, thank you again! 💕

@bright-eyed-goddes
replied to your post “It really sticks in my craw that there’s new asoiaf material out there…”

Have you tried bookdepository.com? You probably now of this, I guess… A lot of things can’t be bought in my country (Serbia), so they are go-to for me. Very reliable, and free shipping world wide!

I haven’t actually. Books have reliably reached me here, usually reasonably fast if they had a Big Name author attached to them. The problem with that site is that the book would cost me over 500 pounds to buy it off them (which I’m guessing the problem with the Book of Swords being delivered here. The currency difference makes it too pricey and local distributors don’t want to risk a book that won’t be sold since very few people would throw half a grand on a book. They might take the risk with the main books but not with side material.)

1) About your message in the “Kurt wooing thing”. Kurt uses song to connect with people. Sure, that’s my point. He likes to sing with someone, for example Sam. He also doesn’t the same thing with Blaine in 6×07: he wants to sing with Blaine and spend time with him. But that’s a big difference between singing with someone among your friends and singing TO someone among strangers.

2) Also, GTGYIML, Kurt didn’t need to woo Blaine, he knew he already had
him. Singing to someone in front of everyone when the answer could be
no. I don’t think that is something that Kurt could do.

Anon, the scenario was potential ways Kurt could propose towoo Blaine. No one said that a public proposal with three show choirs was a necessity. Big gestures needn’t be public to count or land, and serenades don’t need to be out in the courtyard with the entire school as witness to be effective, though again if your argument is “Kurt doesn’t do public serenades to woo someone”, it does not stand in the face of GTGYIML because whether he needed to woo Blaine or not, it was clearly designed as a way to do just that, regardless of whether he knew he had him or not. If we’re talking a public proposal akin to Blaine’s, yeah that isn’t something I can see Kurt doing. However, who on earth said anything about strangers? The New Directions are right there, and Kurt has put himself out there in front of them before (I Have Nothing). Granted, not to the extent of risk a proposal would take, but honestly, with Blaine’s own patterns in the relationship with Kurt, it wouldn’t been that hard to guess that such a move would be well-received by Blaine. Kurt knows that Blaine wants to marry him and while wariness is to be expected in the wake of the break up, the implication of them reuniting was always that marriage was the endgame, something that was acknowledged by Burt, Carol and even Kurt and Blaine themselves during the wedding episode. So I can see Kurt arranging a proposal with their friends specifically because it’d be the sort of gesture Blaine would appreciate (though, again, no necessity for that. He could serenade Blaine in a Big Gesture but make the proposal private. The two are not mutually exclusive) Still a bit out there for Kurt perhaps, but then again, blurting out that he was there to win back Blaine’s heart was also a bit out there for him so was running to his apartment to get him back. But wasn’t that a huge point in season six anyway, to show that Kurt is more willing to take risks and put himself out there for Blaine?

And anon, you might have argued your point here but you did it in a way that allowed me to have a conversation with you and make my counterpoint. But your message to Kay was condescending. Not the best way to have a conversation when that is your starter.

It really sticks in my craw that there’s new asoiaf material out there that could have info on my queen Alyssa Velaryon but I have no idea when I can get my hands on it because I don’t have a date for when the book will arrive in Egypt.

assuming we had an AU where ned stark had “southron ambitions” for his children, what would he have had in mind? where would he have fostered them or who would he have wanted to marry them off to? how do you think the stark kids would have felt about something like that? would it have been as harmful for them as it was for, say, lysa tully and lyanna stark?

Contrary to popular sentiment that views ambition as an inherently negative character trait, it is not bad or harmful in and of itself. It’s only when people prioritize it above all else that it becomes bad; when they start stepping on others or putting them into dangerous or unwanted situation or denying them even their governance over their own bodies that it becomes harmful. To this effect, Rickard Stark’s problem wasn’t that he had ambitions for his children or that he looked to the south for alliance, it was that he forced Lyanna into a betrothal that she did not want and a marriage that would have made her miserable (and probably abused). Hoster Tully’s problem was not that he wanted a high marriage for his daughter, it was that he believed that the advancement of his House and his reputation was worth violating her body autonomy and putting her through the physical and emotional trauma of a forced abortion.

In that vein, Ned’s character is a very important factor in this conversation. This AU changes his trauma responses which is what drives a lot of his decisions in OTL; Ned’s desire to be left in peace in the North and his ill feelings towards the south was born out of his trauma during the rebellion, so was his inclination to keep his family around him and refusing to foster out any of his children after he lost his father and siblings in short order so I gotta say it’s a little hard to imagine a Ned who has “southron ambitions” since it was those ambitions that ended with almost all of his family dying on him before he was even 20. Why do I care about this when I could just rattle some options for fostering and marriage alliances? Because Ned’s overall personality is an integral part of his decision-making process when it comes to his politics. For example, would he be more open to a position in King’s Landing in this scenario? Would he have an eye on Robert’s children as potential matches for his children? Note that an ambitious individual with Ned’s circumstances could have capitalized on his connections to the new ruling regime post-Robert’s Rebellion, and gotten honors and high offices lavished on him by his eager royal foster brother, which would have landed him in King’s Landing with a seat on the small council and great sway in Robert’s government. But Ned didn’t because of a mix of a psychological wish to leave the south after what happened to his family, and a necessity for keeping his distance from Robert because of Jon. An ambitious individual would have actively pursued a match between Sansa and the dynastically excellent Joffrey, but Ned was wary and grudgingly accepting at first, then went to the extent of talking about breaking the betrothal before he guessed the truth about Joffrey’s parentage. Ned was not your average feudal lord who saw his children as marital pawns and instruments of alliances first, and whose focus in a betrothal was the amount of power it could bring him above the well-being of his children. 

That is all to say that it’s a bit more complicated than just figuring out where Ned would foster his children and who he’d marry them to, because I have to find a balance between what southron ambitions means to Ned and the changes this bring as he perhaps seeks to be more involved in politics to the south, and the fact that this was a man who defied the social norms of his time by caring about the character of the people marrying his daughters and not wanting his children to be betrothed young. Ned was a man who cared more about his children’s well-being than he did any political gain. Those are elements that I can’t see going anywhere, otherwise Ned would lose the core of who he is as a person and wouldn’t be Ned at all.

Following that, I don’t think there is a strong possibility for Ned to foster out his children, even if he has political interests dependent on that fostering. For one, while fostering is a very useful method of building alliances, Ned could easily follow in the footsteps of his father-in-law and rely on marital alliances instead. Indeed, I think the chances of this are high, both because of Ned’s desire to keep his children around him in Winterfell and because of Jon Snow. That Jon gets to grow up in Winterfell under Ned’s tutelage and with his children is important to Ned, but it’s not something he could swing if he is to attempt to foster away his children with Catelyn. Keep in mind that Catelyn consistently tried to get Jon sent away so if Ned was to foster out any of her children, she wouldn’t have budged in demanding that Jon be sent away as well. After all, Ned couldn’t very well demand that Jon stay but send Catelyn’s children away. It’d be a major point of criticism and wonder if the Lord of Winterfell scatters his trueborn children but keeps his bastard son by his side, which would have serious political implications if Ned is seen to favor his bastard son over his trueborn one (and the Blackfyre rebellions were on Catelyn’s mind as it was.) So fostering is out unless Ned is prepared to send Jon away.

As for the matter of the betrothals, an eye towards the advancement of his House and Ned’s own personal priorities aren’t the only considerations here; he also needs to take into account the reaction of his bannermen when deciding on matches for his children. With the memory of the disastrous results of Lord Rickard’s own southron ambitions still in living memory, and given the fact that the Northern lords have been deprived of a Stark match from the previous generation, in addition to their natural dislike of the south, it is politically prudent for Ned to marry more than one child to the North to appease his bannermen and avoid unwanted discord in the North. Robb, in particular, is a lock-down for a Northern match, because (1) he is the heir and thus the greatest marital prize the Starks have to offer and so (2) his marriage to the North would go a long way in satisfying the Northmen more than any of his siblings, and (3) with a southron mother whom he favored in looks, marrying Robb to the south risks him being branded as “too-southron” in the eyes of his prickly future bannermen, a rather unfavorable image for the future Lord of Winterfell to have, especially in the presence of the Stark-looking, uber-Northern Jon Snow, or so Catelyn might figure. Of the possible matches, I’d say Wylla Manderly is the most likely choice. The Manderlys are the richest and most powerful Stark vassals which makes them the most impressive match within the North, which would fit Ned’s ambitions nicely in this scenario without being a too controversial match. The Manderlys may be Reacher expatriates, but they have been in the North for over a thousand years and have provided brides for House Stark twice before. The other potential brides within Robb’s age range are Meera Reed and Alys Karstark. The former might appeal personally to Ned considering his friendship with Howland, but an alliance with Greywater Watch offers little in terms of political power and I don’t know about Catelyn’s reaction since crannogmen aren’t exactly esteemed in the Seven Kingdoms or even in the North itself, though Ned’s personal regard for Howland would hold weight for her. Alys makes for a more traditional marriage partner for a Stark since Karstarks have been Stark brides thrice before, and we know that her father had an eye on this match since she and Robb were children. She also offers a seamless affirmation of Robb’s Northern roots due to her Stark blood.

As much as Robb is more likely to marry to the North, Sansa is almost certainly getting married to the south in this au. Unfortunately, Joffrey Baratheon is the most impressive dynastic match in Westeros so he is still the most likely choice. But here’s where possible changes might prevent that betrothal: if Ned is more involved in southern politics in this au in a way that brings him to King’s Landing if even occasionally, chances are he’d have some contact with Joffrey and be even more wary of a match with the crown prince than he was in OTL. Ned cared about the character of his daughters’ bridegrooms so if he has a better grasp on Joffrey’s personality before Robert suggests the match and he feels he has to accept it, he might try to broker another betrothal, though the chances of that are quite low since Robert suggests the match with Joffrey when Sansa was only eleven and Ned would not betroth her before that. Poor dear most likely still gets stuck with Joffrey. Who else would be suitable for Sansa? Hmm, one of her uncle’s future bannermen might be a good choice, if not especially advantageous since House Stark is already married to the Riverlands’ ruling family. But someone like Patrick Mallister remains a nice option. Fandom is quite fond of Willas Tyrell as a match for Sansa but while Willas is an impressive dynastic match, he is significantly older in a way that I don’t think Ned would want, not to mention that Ned didn’t have much (or any) relationship with Mace Tyrell. The heirs of the most prominent Vale families also fall under the too old umbrella. (And no, a match to Harry Hardyng can’t happen since it’d be a statement from Ned and Catelyn that they do not expect Robert Arryn to survive which is a poor message to send in normal circumstances but even more so in light of the familial connection between the Starks and Arryns. As for Robert Arryn, he is a bit on the younger side for Sansa.) 

Arya, I can see go either way. A good dynastic match for her would be Robert Arryn. He is only a couple of years younger than her, and her cousin besides. If she is betrothed to Robert and Sansa to Joffrey, that would be quite the neat affirmation of the Tully-Stark-Baratheon-Arryn alliance. Downside is that if Ned witnesses Lysa’s deterioration and her encouragement of Robert’s dependency on her, which would be quite disturbing for him, he might not be too keen on the match. Robert is also very ill, which would raise concerns about his survival, or even his ability to father children in light of his parents’ fertility problems. But I can also see Ned marrying Arya to the North. She’d certainly prefer a match closer to her family rather than being sent south. Giving a Stark bride to a Northern house would also be a good idea since it’s been generations since a Stark bride was last married to the North (we have to go back to the generation of Lord Beron Stark, Rickard’s great grandfather to find a Stark bride who married to the North, though we do not know the marital fates of Beron’s daughters Alysanne and Berena. Still, even if we assume they married Northmen (probable), that still leaves a three-generation gap in which the only two available main-line Stark brides were married to a Royce and betrothed to a Baratheon respectively – and the two known non-main-line Stark ladies married a Stark (Ned’s mother Lyarra) and a Rogers from the Stormlands (his aunt Branda)). The two heirs within Arya’s age range are Cley Cerwyn and Jojen Reed, not as impressive of a dynastic match as an Arryn or even some of the other more powerful Northern Houses, but Cley has the advantage of proximity to Winterfell (only half a day’s ride away making them frequent visitors of Winterfell) which would certainly appeal to Arya, while Jojen has Howland’s friendship with Ned going for him, though sending her daughter to the swamps of the Neck would not go well with Catelyn, I reckon. Another choice that might be a middle ground between what Arya might prefer and what Catelyn and Ned want for their daughter is Brynden Blackwood, a match that wouldn’t be disliked by the Northern lords due to House Blackwood’s Northern origins and that might appeal to Arya for the shared cultural and religious origins.

Bran is another I see Ned and Cat planning on a southern match for given his desire to be a knight and fascination by chivalry and stories about knighthood. Known noble ladies in Bran’s age bracket are limited though so this is a bit hard. Myrcella Baratheon obviously, but a Northern second son isn’t an impressive match for a princess and Cersei is sure to object (and it definitely would not happen if SansaJoffrey is a go). Shireen Baratheon is a possibility as the heiress to Dragonstone, the daughter of the Master of Ships who Ned respects and the king’s niece, except Stannis resents Ned, Dragonstone isn’t the most bountiful seat (if still a definite improvement on the Northern holdfast Bran was promised), the relationship between Stannis and Robert is fraught, and why go for an alliance with Stannis if one is assured with Robert? Bethany Blackwood is another possibility that fits Bran’s shift towards the old gods, and would be received favorably by the Northmen as a Stark match. Jonos Bracken has daughters but 1) I hate that guy, 2) we don’t know how old his daughters are and 3) in a choice between Bracken and Blackwood, you bet everything that Ned would go for the old gods-worshipping, Northern-blooded Blackwoods who he counts as kin. 

As for Rickon, who the hell knows. Lyanna Mormont is a fan favorite, but no matter how much I love the Mormont ladies, they are not good dynastic matches. House Mormont is impoverished and no one knows the identity of the father(s) of Maege’s girls, fathered by a bear as she claims. The kid’s age also means that possible brides for him probably hadn’t even been born yet when Ned was killed, and the only person within his age range that we know of is Erena Glover. So really, we all say Erena Glover because we don’t have any other choice in the North, much less the south. But to discuss Erena as match, it’s important to note House Glover is a masterly House, not a lordly one so not a lot of political advantage there. However, Rickon is the youngest of five so that allows for more leeway in picking his match than his older siblings, and it would not be the first time a Stark took a Glover to wife. On the upside, the Glovers have shown consistent unflinching loyalty to House Stark across multiple generations, and there is also a rebellion-forged personal connection between the two houses with Ethan Glover being the sole survivor of Brandon’s entourage and one of Ned’s companions that died trying to rescue Lyanna at the Tower of Joy. 

the mhysa scene is less surprising once dany’s bloodriders prostrate for the first time in the story before her and stallion that mounts the world prophecy that clearly applies to daenerys (khal of khals). grrm has been pulling this shit from the beginning. plus he ignored a good opportunity to humanise dothraki women by having dany watch them before copying them to assimilate better.

Oh, no doubt. Martin’s conception of Dany’s story and the way he wrote the Dothraki is indisputably racist in several different ways. I only wanted to talk about the Mhysa scene because it’s not one I often see discussed beyond the show’s even worse adaptation of it, but the scene in the books is also very racist. No, I don’t care that Dany is a messianic figure nor do I care that this fall within the line of her thematic motherhood, having a prominently non-white population hail a white teenager as their mother is a pretty bad image to include in your narrative.