The brothers Martell were once fire and water, not grass and viper. Hardly a word was spoken that did not turn to disagreement. There was love, but there was not understanding. Love for Elia, at the least. But loving Elia was easy; that was the one thing they could always agree on.
One thing to try is to save the alliance through another betrothal if other children exist. So, in your scenario, Aegon might still offer Rhaelle for Ormund to keep the alliance with Storm’s End,
only the betrothal would happen under much better circumstances
in that case. But if Rhaelle is already betrothed to someone else or just doesn’t exist, the alliance dies, yes. Not much anyone can do about it. Perhaps they can try with the next generation.
But Lyonel really wouldn’t have any leg to stand on for a rebellion if Duncan’s marriage to Jenny happens after his daughter dies. Neither he nor his house have any claim on Duncan and Jenny hasn’t substituted his daughter as the crown prince’s wife, nor has the crown went back on a betrothal agreement. There is no insult dealt to House Baratheon in that the crown prince spurned their daughter, in favor of a peasant girl with unknown origins no less. While I imagine there might be some major side-eyeing of Duncan for going from a Baratheon from Storm’s End to a commoner, it’s no skin off Lyonel’s nose that the marriage happens, except for his position as a noble dealing with the political ramifications Duncan’s decision brought.
You have to consider that what made Aerys I’s refusal to consummate his marriage passable is that he was reasonably down the line of succession for the duration of his father’s rule, with Baelor Breakspear and his two sons preceding him as heirs to Daeron II. Even following Baelor’s lamented death at Ashford, Daeron II still had two immediate heirs in Prince Valaar and Prince Matarys who were expected to produce heirs to continue the line so there was no dynastic urgency for Aerys I to sire heirs. His refusal to consummate his marriage – while assuredly a hassle to Daeron II that undermined his political goals as demonstrated by how the king then wed Princess Elaena to Ronnel Penrose probably to make up for the weird limbo Aerys left his wife Aelinor Penrose in – was not seen as critical to the continuance of the line or the health of the state since no one could have predicted the Great Spring Sickness or that it would carry off the king and both of his immediate heirs leaving the throne to Aerys. By the time
his continued avoidance of his wife’s bed and failure to provide an heir
did become a matter of state since it meant the heir to the throne was the “mad, meek and sickly” Rhaegel, Aerys himself was king and there was no higher authority in the land to compel him to do anything.
Comparatively, Aerys II was the sole male heir (after his father) to the ruling line of Aegon V, with his uncle Duncan giving up his claim to the throne and his uncle Daeron dying unwed in 251. Aerys had to have children or the dynasty would be in serious trouble. Theoretically, no one could make him consummate the marriage, no more than Tywin could make Tyrion consummate his marriage with Sansa (and Tywin tried). However, that “holding the future of the dynasty hostage” situation was not practical due to the pressure Jaehaerys would surely put on his wayward son that in all probability would make Aerys cave as his father potentially imposed restrictions on his funds or his privileges, or banished him to Dragonstone, or some other penalty. One vital thing to note here is that this wouldn’t be just about the continuance of the line; if that was the issue, perhaps Aerys could have just toughed it out till Jaehaerys lost hope and acquiesced to an annulment for the good of their dynasty. But Jaehaerys had the prophecy of the Ghost of High Heart driving his insistence on the nuptials of his two children despite their objections, his royal father objections (Yandel notes
Aegon’s apparent disapproval in how he washed his hands of the matter in frustration and just let Jaehaerys have
his way), and surely others in the family as well (I don’t imagine Queen Betha was too happy with her son for forcing this marriage, or her husband for allowing it.) Jaehaerys was not going to give up that easily, not with the prophecy motivating him, and especially not in the wake of the tragedy at Summerhall that left his children and Rhaelle’s Steffon as the only two branches of the family. Amiable as Jaehaerys might have been, he had proven his stubbornness and willfulness in the matter of his marriage to Shaera, and again when he insisted on wedding Aerys and Rhaella even in the face of the king’s disapproval.
But if Aerys could withhold the heat for the 3-4 years between his marriage to Rhaella and his ascension to the throne, and get that pesky personality transplant while he was at it, he could easily have the marriage annulled on grounds of non-consummation. In that event, Rhaella could marry again with no problem, if you don’t count the fact that Aerys would be the one arranging her new match as a problem.
He certainly could. A father or a head of house, not even particularly a king, has the power to marry his daughter off any number of times he wants, and her approval isn’t exactly a requirement. Westeros treats women as property of their fathers so they can marry them however they want, and widowhood doesn’t miraculously grant a woman more power unless it’s derived from her children. Even then, a particularly powerful or controlling father might still strongarm his daughter into a second marriage. Indeed, Tywin Lannister tried to do just that by attempting to arrange a match between Cersei and Willas
Tyrell, and he had every intention of finding her another husband after the
Tyrells refused the match to get her out of King’s Landing. Cersei was the queen regent, the most
powerful woman in the Seven Kingdoms, and yet Tywin had plans to force her to submit to his marital designs because Tywin didn’t think of his children as people but rather as things to move on his chess board. Hell, Kevan tried to make Cersei wed when he set his terms for accepting the Handship, though he lacked the power of force her.
To the same effect, Lord Wyman Webber married his daughter Rohanne off four times in his life, and mandated another marriage within two years of his death in his will as a stipulation of her keeping Coldmoat. And while not forced in the sense of the previous two examples, we also have Princess Elaena Targaryen who wed for a second time to Ronnel Penrose at the behest of Daeron II, and Kiera of Tyrosh who wed Daeron the Drunken after the death of her first husband Prince Valaar, probably by the machinations of the Hand, Lord Brynden Rivers (the marriage that is, not Valaar’s death).
Thus, Viserys, as both Naerys’ father and later king, had the authority to make her wed again if he so wished, unless one of his kings (Aegon III, Daeron I, or Baelor) forbade it. The question is, would he want to? Viserys already forced one husband on Naerys, one that raped and abused her on a regular basis and routinely jeopardized her life despite warnings that pregnancy could kill her to the point where Baelor the Blessed had to send Aegon on “a diplomatic” mission to Braavos to give the poor princess time to recover from childbirth. Marriage was, quite literally, a risk for Naerys’ health considering her delicate health and dangerous pregnancies that Aegon made her go through enough of. Forcing her to marry against her will for a second time after the ordeal of her marriage to Aegon would strike me as singularly cruel to her.
As for being a stepfather to a king, of course it’s a lucrative position, though the extent depends on the circumstances. If a noble marries the king’s mother when the king was a child, it would give him the chance to establish himself as a beloved father figure to the king, and he’d made for a natural choice for Protector of the Realm or the Hand during the king’s minority (with possibility to keep the Handship or a seat on the Small Council after the king reaches his majority). He might even hope for the regency if the stars aligned, or he made them align like in the case of Petyr Baelish. While not a king, the power Petyr derived from Robert Arryn stands as an example of the kind of power a noble could procure through his stepson. Perhaps possible advantages of being the king’s stepfather could be is clearer in the case of Lord Robar Baratheon who wed the Dowager Queen Alyssa Velaryon after her son King Jaehaerys I reached his majority. Already esteemed by Jaehaerys for his loyalty and protection of Queen Alyssa, Jaehaerys and Alysanne during Maegor’s reign, and for being the first lord to declare for the then-minor and vulnerable Jaehaerys, Robar was further rewarded when Jaehaerys chose his half-sister Jocelyn, Robar’s daughter by Alyssa, as bride for crown prince Aemon. Similarly, a king’s stepfather might also hope for a royal match for one of the children he has by the king’s mother as a more traditional nuptial choice for the Targaryens. Even if none of that was feasible like in Daeron’s case since he had already reached his majority when Viserys became king and since the prospect of having a child by Naerys was doubtful due to her health, being kin to the king is always an advantage that could easily translate to being entrusted with a high office in his
government and the advancement of one’s house.
But even without an official
position, being the goodson of one king and the stepfather of another
with easy access to them both is definitely nothing to sneeze at.
– i’m socially exhausted
– i don’t have the time right now
– i don’t know how to reply
– i have a bad memory and got distracted
– i’m having a depressive episode and don’t have the energy to socialise
not reasons i haven’t replied back:
– i’m ignoring you just because
– i hate you
– i’m fed up with you
– i don’t want to be your friend anymore
You’re thinking of Rowena Arryn, anon, Jon Arryn’s second wife that died of a winter chill. Alys was Jon’s sister, the one who married Elys Waynwood and had several daughters, one of whom married Denys Arryn, and another who married an unnamed Hardyng and produced Harry the not-yet-Heir. We don’t have an exact date of birth for Alys (and the wiki puts it sometime between 218 and 249, which isn’t helpful at all) but when we take into account Jon’s age, and the fact that Harry, Alys’ grandson via her eighth daughter (probably ninth child), was born in 282, it’s safe to assume that she was closer to the older end of her age range than the younger one. As for Rowena Arryn (a cousin of unknown proximity to the ruling Arryns) or any of Alys’ daughters’, none were dynastically important enough to warrant the second in line for the throne.
As for Malora, we have no idea when she was born or even an age range for her so I have no way of figuring her suitability for Aerys.
The dynamics wouldn’t change, only the matches would. A Cat-Ned match is one possibility, Lysa-Brandon is another, though perhaps Hoster’s preference of Jaime Lannister as a more advantageous match than a Stark would sway him towards the first match to save Lysa for Jaime.
In any case, I really don’t think that Ned would be fostered in Riverrun in the event of a betrothal between him and Cat. Note that Ned was fostered at 8 before any of the betrothals ever took shape in the minds of the elder generation of the SA. Rickard Stark and Hoster Tully might have already had plans for marital matches between the two houses, but it was impossible to decide on them at this point in time, when Minisa Whent was in all probability still alive and Hoster still had hopes for a male heir. More importantly, fostering Ned in Riverrun might be personally useful for him since it familiarizes him to Cat and the land he expected to be the lord consort of some day, but for Rickard, that would squander a golden opportunity for Ned to build personal relationships with Jon Arryn and Robert Baratheon. Rickard got an alliance with Riverrun through the betrothal anyway so fostering Ned there would be redundant in terms of building alliances, and denying his house a guaranteed direct connection to Storm’s End and the Eyrie as early as 271, when any marital plans still had years to come to fruition and do its part in tying Winterfell to the other great houses, does not sound like something Rickard Stark would do. Rickard planned an alliance network that afforded him a central place in the coalition since it directly tied Winterfell to all three houses; passing on that, and especially on cultivating a bond that is, by and large, treated by Westerosi mores as being as important as blood relation between his son and Robert Baratheon, especially at a time when Steffon was still alive and the possibility of a betrothal between Robert and Lyanna was still in the air, doesn’t fall in line with his plans. Why pass on on that assured double alliance that would also increase the possibility of Robert leaning towards the Starks as the family of his beloved foster brother, making a match with Lyanna seem like a natural choice?
But what’s really interesting here is how a match between Ned and Cat might affect the location of the characters when Rhaegar disappears with Lyanna. If it’s Ned who was getting married, chances are that Robert and Jon Arryn would be present for the wedding. More importantly, that could mean that Brandon would be a part of the wedding party coming from Winterfell, or if he was a part of his brother’s wedding entourage, he’d have Ned with him when they receive the news about Lyanna. If Brandon was with Rickard, the Lord of Winterfell wouldn’t let his reckless heir go anywhere near the capital. If he was with Ned, could the more rational brother convince his wolf-blooded sibling that riding to the capital was a bad idea? Could he convince Robert, equally reckless and tempestuous as Brandon, not to seek a confrontation with Rhaegar? Would Jon Arryn, if he was already at Riverrun, try to control when and how the news reached his foster sons, knowing of Robert’s temperament? Would he take measures to ensure that his foster sons and his nephew don’t do anything stupid? I mean, he sure isn’t going to sit quietly while an entourage that has, at least, one of his foster sons and his heir ride to confront the crown prince in the dragon’s den, and a comment about noble fools isn’t going to cut it. Some of the possible scenarios might actually change the course of the narrative completely.
But if everything goes as it does in canon, or Rickard and Brandon are killed in any different way making Ned the lord of Winterfell, I imagine there would be a fair amount of dithering on the matter of inheritance, but I’m confident in saying Ned would not be staying in the south. For one, the patriarchy makes it far more likely for the female heiress to be the one accompanying her husband (indeed, Brienne had every expectation that upon her marriage to a younger son of Lord Caron, she’d live and raise her children at Nightsong, even though Brienne was the heiress of Tarth while her one-time betrothed wasn’t even the heir of his house. That Brienne had that expectation in the first place is telling of the restrictions patriarchal Westeros imposes on women and how they are expected to follow their husbands). She would even be the one to renounce her inheritance if it came to a choice between his lordship and her ladyship, as Lady Rohanne Webber did in giving up Coldmoat when she married Gerold Lannister, though that had its special circumstances. More significant to the discussion, perhaps, is the fact that Ned was already the Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North, while Cat was only the heir to Riverrun.
There was no pressing reason for her to remain in the Riverlands or any argument for Ned to stay when he had his own kingdom to rule. To add, House Stark had suffered quite the diminishing hit in the rebellion and dwindled to Ned and the 15-year-old-or-younger Ben, which was made worse when Ben decided to take the black soon after the war, while the Tullys were fairly secure, with three heiresses to Hoster and Ser Brynden besides. Leaving a North that had just lost its ruler and his heir and a few thousand men in the hands of a castellan and a teenager who hadn’t yet reached his majority so that the lord could stay with his southron wife (oh, how the Northmen would have loved that) and not even help her rule because she wasn’t ruling yet, is a monumentally awful idea. On a personal level, there is also Ned’s trauma and the fact that he did not want to stay in the south after
the rebellion to account for. The guy just wanted to go home and mourn his family. And we can’t disregard how Jon
Snow and Ned’s desire to raise him in Winterfell factored into any decision he made. In short, Ned had every reason, whether personal, social or political, to take up his place in Winterfell and try to rebuild his shattered reality.
Of course, Ned’s new position introduces a quandary with regards to the inheritance of the two houses, but if the historical model of Rhaenyra Targaryen and Laenor Velaryon is anything to go by, a solution exists. To explain, Rhaenyra was the Princess of Dragonstone and Laenor the heir to Driftmark when they wed and after Laenor’s death, Rhaenyra urged Laenor’s father Lord Corlys to name “their” second son Lucerys as the new heir to Driftmark since first son Jacaerys was expected to succeed her to the throne, meaning that her inheritance would have passed to first son Jace and her husband’s to second son Luke. Rhaenyra’s example shows that splitting the inheritance of the parents between their sons is a possibility, one that would nicely solve the dynastic dilemma of heir-heir (or heir-lord in Cat and Ned’s case) marriage. To that effect, the question of inheritance would be settled by Robb succeeding his father and getting Winterfell, and Bran being acknowledged as heir to Riverrun.
Well, keep in mind that legitimizing bastards is an extremely rare occurrence in Westeros that almost always happens only because of a succession crisis. We only have a couple of examples of legitimated bastards in Westerosi historiography (i.e: Aegon IV’s bastards, and Addam and Alyn Velaryon, legitimized by Rhaenyra’s decree during the Dance of the Dragons), while the main novels adds Ramsay’s legitimization by Tommen, and Jon Snow’s by Robb. That only a king (not a prince. A prince can not legitimize a bastard) can “wash [a bastard] clean of bastardy” contributes to a rareness that certainly make sense in light of how society stigmatizes bastards as “born of weakness and lust” and “not to be trusted”. Even when legitimized…
But now voices on the black council were raised to
question Ser Addam’s loyalty. The dragonseeds Ulf White and Hugh Hammer
had gone over to the enemy … but were they the only traitors in their
midst? What of Addam of Hull and the girl Nettles? They had been born of
bastard stock as well. Could they be trusted?
Lord
Bartimos Celtigar thought not. “Bastards are treacherous by nature,” he
said. “It is in their blood. Betrayal comes as easily to a bastard as
loyalty to trueborn men.”
[”..] King Aegon decreed that his bastards were not bastards, but he could not change their nature. The High Septon said all bastards
are born to betrayal … Daemon Blackfyre, Bittersteel, even
Bloodraven. Lord Rivers was more cunning than the other two, he said,
but in the end he would prove himself a traitor, too. The High Septon
counseled my father [Maekar] never to put any trust in him, nor in any other bastards, great or small.“
“The evil is in his blood,” said Robett Glover. “[Ramsay] is a bastard born of rape. A Snow, no matter what the boy king says.”
… it’s still a wide-spread belief that bastards are inherently deceptive and ill-made. That stigmatization and the potential political complications that can arise from legitimization (as well as the fact that most bastards are often fathered on lowborn mothers) makes it societally unacceptable to legitimize bastards based on personal whims, no matter how favored they are by their fathers (which is fairly rare in and of itself. The standard when it comes to bastards is to tuck them away somewhere and forget about them). Noble spouses certainly would not take kindly to their husbands’ bastards being elevated to their own children’s rank or added to the line of succession as well. There is a certain element of protecting the status quo in that; protecting the class hierarchy that can not allow for children fathered on peasants and tavern wenches and fishwives and camp followers to be elevated to the rank of nobility, which then rolls into religious dogma and the way the majority religion otherizes bastards and preaches about their “base” morals, and continues to pick up the bloodline issues of inheritance and the paranoia of bastards posing danger to their truebon siblings, to finally become a symbol of keeping social norms in Westeros. Bastards are kept bastards, socially marginalized and systemically oppressed, as a part of Westerosi social norms that routinely makes scapegoats out of them.
Already a rare thing, the social pressure against bastard legitimization only increased to monumental levels after Daemon Blackfyre rebelled and his descendant continued to plague Westeros for five generations, making the worst case scenario of legitimizing a bastard come true in a way that encompassed the whole realm and dragged it into several wars. Legitimizing bastards was no longer just a matter of social acceptability after that, but a “proven” huge political risk that endangered the trueborn siblings, which is what generations of Westerosi were taught in the wake of Daemon’s rebellion. As we’ve seen from Catelyn’s reaction to Robb’s decision to legitimize Jon, the shadow of a bastard line challenging the trueborn one has since been very present on the minds of the Westerosi.
“Precedent,” [Catelyn] said bitterly. “Yes, Aegon the Fourth
legitimized all his bastards on his deathbed. And how much pain, grief,
war, and murder grew from that? I know you trust Jon. But can you trust
his sons? Or their sons?The Blackfyre pretenders troubled the
Targaryens for five generations, until Barristan the Bold slew the last
of them on the Stepstones. If you make Jon legitimate, there is no way
to turn him bastard again. Should he wed and breed, any sons you may
have by Jeyne will never be safe.”
That anxiety does not stop with the bastard but surpasses him to his descendants. Hell, the fear is not just restricted to legitimated bastards. We’ve heard a similar sentiment from Catelyn as far back as AGoT, back when all of Catelyn’s children were alive and well, and Jon was not even a part of the line of succession.
And in time the boy would take the oath as well. He would father no sons
who might someday contest with Catelyn’s own grandchildren for
Winterfell.
The possibility, however small, is not a risk the post-Blackfyres generations took lightly. Daemon Blackfyre was a shadow that hung over every noble bastard in Westeros, and would especially hang over favored royal ones, even those whose fathers are relatively low in the line of succession. For better or for worse, the act of legitimizing a royal bastard has become associated with the Blackfyres (and Bittersteel and Bloodraven who made the realm suffer each in their own way) which guarantees that it wouldn’t be received favorably by the nobility. One might simply reflect on how the Targaryen dynasty has had its fair share of third and fourth sons ascending to the throne to see the potential danger of such a decree, small as it may be.
Sam speaks 