Here’s a question for you, Oberyn wins the TBC and Tyrion goes free. Would Varys try and convince him to leave Westeros and go to Daenerys to spite his family or would he stay and demand Casterly Rock from Tommen as a fuck you to Cersei and Tywin? Or something else? Also how would Oberyn being alive change Doran’s plans? Would he send him to Daenerys to seek an alliance against the Lannisters?

Staying in King’s Landing was not an option. As Kevan spelled it out for Tyrion, he was in danger whatever the outcome of the trial was.

“You have no witnesses,” his uncle reminded him. “Tyrion, if you are
guilty of this enormity, the Wall is a kinder fate than you deserve. And
if you are blameless… there is fighting in the north, I know, but even
so it will be a safer place for you than King’s Landing, whatever the
outcome of this trial. The mob is convinced of your guilt. Were you so
foolish as to venture out into the streets, they would tear you limb
from limb.” 

But forget about the mob, Cersei would have Tyrion torn limb from limb, guilty verdict or not. The outcome of the trial did not matter in the slightest; Cersei was convinced that Tyrion was the one who killed Joffrey and would have had him murdered even if he’d won the trial by combat. Tyrion is too smart not to realize that. A Kingsguard already tried to kill him during the Blackwater while he was acting Hand, what’s stopping another attempt to happen, now that any power he had had been effectively stripped away from him? Who would care if the publicly disgraced so-called “Imp” was discreetly murdered when a witness after witness relayed stories of his “monstrous” and “deviant” behavior and played right on the onlookers’ already existing ableism? King’s Landing did not care about Tyrion when he was the one defending it, it certainly was not about to start now when everyone was ganging up on him.

No, Tyrion had to leave King’s Landing. Westeros, though, is another matter. As we’ve seen in canon, Tyrion was utterly vulnerable in Essos, alienated by the difference in culture and language, weakened by lack of funds, allies or power through family name, and subject to the whims of Illyrio, JonCon and Jorah, among others. Moreover, with Tyrion’s innocence proven through Oberyn, Varys would lose his position as his only way out of a certain death, which effectively gave the Spider power to determine Tyrion’s course (which was to Illyrio and from there to Aegon. Daenerys was never in the cards as a destination for Tyrion. Jorah’s intervention was what readjusted Tyrion’s course to point straight to Meereen and Dany.)

Luckily, Tyrion had another option: Dorne.

[Oberyn] set the spear aside. “It is said that a Lannister always
pays his debts. Perhaps you will return to Sunspear with me when the
day’s bloodletting is done. My brother Doran would be most pleased to
meet the rightful heir to Casterly Rock… especially if he brought his
lovely wife, the Lady of Winterfell.”

Does the snake think I have Sansa squirreled away somewhere, like a nut I’m hoarding for winter? If so, Tyrion was not about to disabuse him. “A trip to Dorne might be very pleasant, now that I reflect on it.”

“Plan
on a lengthy visit.” Prince Oberyn sipped his wine. “You and Doran have
many matters of mutual interest to discuss. Music, trade, history,
wine, the dwarf’s penny… the laws of inheritance and succession. No
doubt an uncle’s counsel would be of benefit to Queen Myrcella in the
trying times ahead.” 

One thing to keep in mind is that the change in the outcome of the trial alters the political theater in the capital. Tyrion would be exonerated by the gods themselves which disappoints Tyrin’s plans of formally disinheriting him as he wished for years. Oberyn would have Gregor’s confession of the murder of Elia and Aegon and Tyrion’s innocence proven which amounts to a public condemnation of the Lannister regime twice over, one for Elia and Aegon, and another for Tyrion. The Lannister regime would be publicly branded as one that employs and champions monstrous murderers and condemns innocents. That puts Tywin in a politically tight spot with Dorne, prevents him from using the criminal charges against Tyrion to kick him off the line of succession, and stays his hand from any attempt of retaliation against Oberyn in the meantime. Essentially, Tywin would be forced to play nice for a time to mitigate the consequences of the trial and appease Dorne, all while Oberyn sat on his small council and worked to undermine the Lannister-Tyrell government from within (though Oberyn planned to return to Sunspear with Tyrion but this could be to discuss their plan with Doran in light of the new developments or to present Gregor’s skull to his princely brother as promised rather than a sign of him abandoning his small council seat.) Oberyn’s actions in King’s Landing were no impulsive move on his part but a sign of keen political thinking that could have served the Dornish plan really well if it worked (besides the obvious attempt to get justice for Elia in the only way that was afforded to him). If Tywin was forced to keep face and play nice with his purported Dornish allies, he would not halt his newly exonerated son from accepting a friendly visit to Dorne to keep the pretense of amiable relationship with the royals’ future kin, so Tyrion would go to Dorne and Oberyn would take his seat on the small council and revel in rubbing it in the face of the Lannisters, while Doran received the heir to Casterly Rock who was itching to get back at his family and presumably the Lady of Winterfell who had enough reasons to want the Lannisters gone, as Oberyn believed Tyrion knew Sansa’s location. Those are great cards to have when you’re planning a coup.

As for Daenerys, Quentyn was on that as far as Doran was concerned. I’m a little hazy on the timeline but I believe Oberyn was still alive when Doran sent Quentyn off on his journey. The plan was for Oberyn to be in the lion’s den while Quentyn sought out Dany to affirm the alliance with Dorne and bring her dragons to Westeros, an attack from within and without.

Firts sentence fic: dont you dare look outside darling, everything is on fire.

samwpmarleau:

Don’t you dare look outside, darling, everything is on fire.

The phrase comes into her head, but she doesn’t know where she heard it; it’s dramatic enough to be from Old Nan, or Brandon, but that doesn’t sound right. It doesn’t matter anyway, she supposes, since she won’t live long enough to figure it out. Everything is pain, everything is fire, from the throbbing between her legs to the emptiness of her belly to her sluggish thoughts to the overwhelming wrongness.

And then, through it all, somehow she hears his voice, somehow he’s found her.

She screams his name.

“Remember, she is Dornish.”

lyannas:

Or, Dorne is Westeros’ erotic, exotic, made complete with a helping handful of racism on top.

As someone from a West Asian culture living in a Western country, I had noticed something early on in the depiction of the Dornish that hit close to home and sat ill with me. To begin with, we were informed of the existence of the Dornish yet did not meet a prominent Dornish character until book 3, Oberyn Martell, who was observed through Tyrion’s POV chapters . Before we meet him, a few things are made clear: Dorne makes wine, they’re still upset over Princess Elia’s death, and they are very much the other. When anyone from north of Dorne speaks about the Dornish, they specify it as such, referring to them as Dornish, Dornishmen, and Dornish women.  They are set apart from other Westerosis in the similar way to the Iron Islanders. Their culture is different, therefore specifications are required. While this in no way is a bad thing, as all cultures should be different in some way, discussion of Dornish culture by non-Dornish sources reveals a type of racism reserved specifically for the Dornish.  Tyrion when he first meets Oberyn considers cracking asking “if he knew how a Dornishman differed from a cowflop”, an example of the casual racism that all non-Dornish seem to hold of the Dornish.

The problem goes beyond the racism of the Westerosi characters, however. George R. R. Martin failed the Dornish (and the Essosi) in several aspects of writing, by using racist tropes in his depiction of them and by introducing the Dornish so late and with so little. He did not introduce a prominent Dornish character until book 3, did not provide a Dornish POV until book 4, and even then gave us very little. Of the 9 Dornish POV chapters in books 1-5, one of them belongs to the pretty racist Reachman Arys Oakheart, 2 belong to the Norvoshi Areo Hotah, and the last 6 are split between Quentyn (4 chapters) and Arianne (2 chapters). While there appears to be more Arianne chapters to come in TWOW (2 so far), this is a shockingly small amount of Dornish perspective, with Quentyn’s story not even taking place in Dorne (and ending with his death).

In this essay, I’ll tackle the history of this anti-Dornish racism, how it is practiced by those in Westeros and abroad, and the (often racist) tropes Martin uses to prop up it.

Keep reading

Jon, Jon and the third Jon

There is something that buggers me to no end.

Effectively, I noted the Jon Snow being called after Jon Arryn. However, what buggers me so much is the third head of the Jon.

Why was Lord Connington called JON? I mean by Doylist reason. What did GRRM pretend? To make a pun? Knowing him, it SHOULD be something greater than that. Something like Jon hearing of Jon Snow, then of his true parenthood, and then deciding in his head that Rhaegar called him after him, and then wildly fantasizing once fucking again.

Eh, I do not think that every single name correlation has to mean something. Some do, but sometimes a name is just a name. GRRM uses the name Jon a lot in the series (Jon Fossosay, both Jon Umbers, Jon Stark, Jon Wylde, Jon Brax, Jon Bulwer, Jon Redford, Jon Cupps, etc. And that’s not to mention all the names that have the same base like Jonos, Jonothor, Jonnel, and the female Jonnelle). While Jon Connington could be tied to Jon somewhat through Rhaegar unlike the above Jons, I do not see it as indicative of a deeper meaning, and I do not think that scenario of JonCon hearing about Jon Snow likely. For one, I highly doubt that the truth of Jon’s paternity would become a public knowledge to the point of reaching JonCon in the Stormlands, or King’s Landing if he even makes it that far before succumbing to greyscale (I don’t think he will). Why would it? It’s not like Jon is gonna press a claim to the throne, or will have any interest in publicizing an origin story that should be utterly devastating to him. The one case where the news about Jon’s parentage might come semi-public is if Howland Reed told to render Robb’s will moot in the case of a dispute over the lordship of Winterfell, but I really, really doubt it’d play like that. He’d go to Jon with it instead of making it public (if the info came through Howland at all, and not Bran or even Nuncle Benjen) Keep in mind that Stannis is in the North, and he’d just love the new about a secret Targaryen (while another purported Targaryen sits the Iron Throne.) But even if it goes down that way, it’s not like the information flow from the North to the south is reliable right now. There is some war going on in every region of Westeros right now, and winter has come. With Team Aegon staging an invasion and going to war with the Lannister-Tyrell regime, Euron’s shenanigans in the Reach and his pursuit of Dany potentially getting him a dragon, Dany coming to reclaim her throne by Fire and Blood, and JonCon carrying a contagious disease and hiding it, I just don’t think there’s any space for the introduction of Jon Snow in all that mess.

There’s also the matter of the timeline and how it just does not work. I don’t think JonCon is gonna be alive by the time the truth about Jon’s paternity is revealed. More importantly…..

Only problem, of course, being that these things are already done. JonCon is already fantasizing, he is already winning Westeros, and he will win it, and then he will be betrayed by Varys, because he will once again “Grasp a (spider) star, overreach, and fail”

Exactly! JonCon already has a son of Rhaegar to pin all his hopes of “redemption” on, a boy he raised and came to care about. He is already on his way to proving his love and gaining the imaginary approval of a dead prince through him. He does not need Jon to set him to that course. He is there already, has been there for years.

The only way I see it feasible is that, somehow, is that all this is the fake arc, but then comes the TRUE arc. The TRUE surviving son of Rhaegar, the TRUE reason Rhaegar had a son, the TRUE reason he left Elia, the TRUE enemy Rhaegar wanted to fight, the TRUE reason he became a warrior to begin with, etc. It would help us to endear us to him (after being, well, essentially and overwhelmingly to the point of utter frustration stupid in his methods) if at least JonCon finally, and TRULY has redemption. After all, what with the arcs of one life ending metaphorically to start another? What with the Hound dying as well as the Elder Brother and even Jaime seems poised to do? And also, maybe JonCon is saved by poor Aegon, only for him to die with Arianne, who will be the POV for such a doom… the Doom of Aerys. Nice thematic close.

Or, you know, GRRM wants it to make clear to you that Jon has feelings for Satin and Jon Arryn was cold with Lysa not for anything of being courteous but not loving, but because he can’t bring himself to be so warm with a woman xDBONUS QUESTION: Wait… do I have depression too? I thought, if someone comes to my door and speaks me of Ned Stark and Stannis Baratheon without the whining of the Apologists of Lannister Terrorism, I would cheer up, and so I don’t claim myself depressed until effectively nothing is better than staring at the ceiling. Might be I was wrong.

Again, I don’t think JonCon will be alive by this point. Dude has an incurable disease that is characterized by loss of sensation in limbs that then turn to stone, he ain’t long for this world especially since he won’t wait till the disease kill him. The logistics of JonCon surviving that long, making it out of the fiery doom of King’s Landing somehow while everyone else die, getting wind of Jon’s paternity, and somehow having time for it to make a difference….. just, how? Note that we’ve been told that JonCon could not even utilize the already doubtful method of vinegar wash to slow the spreading of the disease since asking for vinegar would give away his affliction, so he washes it in wine instead. He’s already dying, and the greyscale won’t politely wait till he is redeemed in our eyes.

And why is it that every character in the series needs redemption anyway? We can not start from a place of looking for ways to redeem a character and base our speculation on that. Not every character in asoiaf needs to be redeemed or is going to be redeemed. And honestly, what has JonCon ever done to deserve redemption? His motivations are purely selfish and designed to earn the forgiveness and love of a long dead man. He is literally waging a war so that he could feel better about himself. He is not fighting for the realm, he is not even fighting for Aegon; he is fighting for what Aegon represents or what he tricked himself into believing he represents: redemption in Rhaegar’s eyes. But Redemption: the JonCon edition is seating Aegon on the throne no matter the cost. It is thinking about how he should have burned a town to the ground because he thinks it would have ended the war (it wouldn’t have). It is deciding that he would not make a similar mistake in being afraid of being branded a butcher, while completely failing to recognize where he did go wrong. JoCon is ruled by the past in such a way that he is living in a fantasy world where “redemption” lies in gaining a dead man’s approval, with a string of corpses in his wake if needed, and where he willfully refuses to believe what’s in front of his nose (he recognizes on some level that Aegon is not Rhaegar’s kid) because it does not suit his narrative. That’s the kind of redemption JonCon is after: a lie that serves his self-indulgent fantasies of being worthy of Rhaegar and making it up to him, even if his “proof” is soaked in blood and a Tywin-inspired ruthless. There is no underline of nobility here or a worthy cause JonCon is fighting for; his motivations are utterly and completely self-serving in his chase of affection and validation he will never get.