Actor Darren Criss attends the Clive Davis and Recording Academy Pre-GRAMMY Gala and GRAMMY Salute to Industry Icons Honoring Jay-Z on January 27, 2018 in New York City.
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“If Tywin dies before the series start does Tyrion get the Rock? He is…”
Could she convince him to give it to Tommen instead?
It’s a very hard sell. First of all, Robert was friendly towards Tyrion so while I wouldn’t go as far as classify them as friends, it still makes Robert less prone to take Tyrion’s birthright just because Cersei wants it (and Cersei definitely wants it for herself). Robert also has a shrewd politician in Jon Arryn tempering his lazy acquiescence to some of Cersei’s demands, and Jon Arryn is astute enough to see how the move of the king seizing Casterly Rock from its heir to give to his wife and/or son would reflect poorly on the crown as it sends a message of Robert’s willingness to illegally take his vassals’ lands on royal whim to benefit personally. That’s unlawful and the first step to tyranny.
It’s too much of a hassle for Cersei to try to convince Robert of this, more hassle than she’d be tolerant to, I reckon. It’s far easier to have Tyrion killed, which also solves all her valonqar problems once and for all.
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“In terms of weregild, would a Rhaenys-Robb or Rhaenys- Renly match…”
Could it not be argued that Jon/Daenerys would be a fulfillment of that pact as well? Now, both are Targaryens, but Jon is a Stark as well. He could be fostered for a time with his uncle, creating a connection between the two houses. And Jon would probably take more after his mother and uncle than his father anyway, not just in looks but in manners as well.
Jon is a bastard whereas Daenery is a princess, who is going to argue for a match between a bastard and a princess, even if they share blood? Certainly not Princess Elia whose son can be endangered by his half-brother (the history of noble bastards troubling half-Martell Targaryen monarchs is infamous and bloody) She is not going to give Jon a princess bride to bolster his acceptability.
Too, while I avoided mapping how this au would work (because it’s very complicated and would require too many shifting pieces) and only answered the question as was presented, I’d think that any negotiations between the royals and the rebels would have to happen before Ned even found out about Jon. And it wouldn’t be that easy for Ned to foster Jon in Winterfell (unless he still conceals his paternity) because again, the Blackfyres would leave Elia wary of leaving Jon with his maternal family who just waged war against the Targaryens.
Performer of the Week: Darren Criss
THE PERFORMER | Darren Criss
THE SHOW | The Assassination of Gianni Versace: American Crime Story
THE EPISODE | “Manhunt” (Jan. 24, 2018)
THE PERFORMANCE | Ryan Murphy’s TV shows offer actors a golden opportunity to spread their wings and show a side of themselves we haven’t yet seen. And in its second episode, Versace did just that for Criss, who shed his squeaky-clean Glee past to paint a vivid portrait of a murderer who’s just as charming as he is chilling.
As serial killer Andrew Cunanan, it’s disturbing how easily the lies spilled from Criss’ mouth, as Cunanan bragged about his connections to Versace and his upbringing in France, cold-bloodedly rehearsing his half of the conversation in a mirror beforehand in an attempt to sound “normal.” Criss concealed his Glee-trained pipes as Cunanan fled from authorities while singing (off-key) along with Laura Branigan’s “Gloria” on the car radio — a rare moment of pure elation for the troubled loner. This week’s centerpiece, though, was Cunanan’s riveting rendezvous with an elderly man who paid him for sex, wrapping the man’s entire head in duct tape and dancing to Phil Collins’ “Easy Lover” in his underwear while the man gasped for air. Criss’ intensely blank stare was positively unsettling as Cunanan reveled in the pain he was inflicting, like a shark smelling blood in the water.
Later, in a Miami gay club, Cunanan unspooled another set of lies to a fellow dancer who asked what he did for a living, manically rattling off a list of fake occupations before ending with, “I’m the person least likely to be forgotten.” Thanks to this week’s impressively versatile, chameleon-like performance, Criss’ revelatory work on Versace isn’t likely to be forgotten, either.
In terms of weregild, would a Rhaenys-Robb or Rhaenys- Renly match make the most sense (assume regency for baby Aegon, mutual KO for Rhaegar & Robert)?
Rhaenys/Robb. The Starks were the most injured by Aerys and Rhaegar so it’s them that the crown needs to amend things with the most. They are the ones with marital ties to both the Tullys and the Arryns as opposed to the Baratheons who, by Robert’s death, have lost their main tie to the rest of SA bloc. That match would also be a fulfillment for the Pact of Ice and Fire.
On the Targaryen-Martell side, you’d want to have Princess Rhaenys as the future lady of Winterfell rather than marry her to a second son who stands to inherit nothing once his older brother has kids.
Following the Dance, what happens if all of Aegon and Viserys’ kids are girls? The Conquest of Dorne gets butterflied away but I don’t see how a Great Council will help if all the potential candidates are female. Marry girl!Daeron to a Velayron male cousin (assuming Baela has boys)?
First thing to note here is that with Aegon II’s children being girls, Viserys would be the one taking the throne upon his brother’s death in 157. A man of 35 at the time, he’d be strongly encouraged to take a wife in the hopes of providing a male heir for the throne to avoid a succession crisis following his death. If he refuses (unlikely) or only has girls from his second marriage, a Great Council is needed to choose his heir, not only because that would irrevocably overturn the precedent of the Great Council of 101, but also because Aegon’s line would have a strong claim against Viserys’, and someone needs to decide which line the succession will follow. Another matter for the Great Council to decide is if they’d allow a ruling queen or prefer to pass the throne to a grandson of either Aegon or Viserys instead, which amends the Targrayens succession to allow female-line male heirs. Now, if both girl!Daeron and girl!Aegon have sons, which of them has the stronger claim? What about how the identity of their husbands and the amount of political weight they can wield would influence the decision? I mean, that hypothetical Velaryon cousin would bring a significant body of support for his wife as another Targaryen descendant and the son of the great general Oakenfist. So there is plenty for a Great Council to consider.
As for things being butterflied away, anything that the Targaryens did in OTL past 157 is erased along with the actual Targrayens who did them.
Viserys II had the potential to become another Jaehaerys I so the Seven
Kingdoms would benefit greatly from having him on the throne for 15
years if not more (since the changes probably butterfly away his
poisoning as well), but that also means that the entire political map of Westeros will be completely overhauled. Lots of Targaryens won’t exist. No Daeron, no Great Bastards, no Daemon. Dorne does not join the Seven Kingdoms. The great sept of Baelor isn’t built and the center of the Faith remains in Oldtown. No Blackfyre rebellions. Generations of Martells cease to exist along with Steffon Baratheon and his sons. No Bloodraven, no Daenerys, no Jon Snow. The dragons do not return. Basically, it’s a completely different story.
“Is there a man in your service that you trust utterly and completely?”
“Yes,” said Ned.
“In that case, I have a delightful palace in Valyria that I would dearly love to sell you,” Littlefinger said with a mocking smile. “The wiser answer was no, my lord…”The show seems to have taken Petyr’s stance on this re Ned but Petyr was wrong, as we see in the later books. Ned inspires loyalty. There’s a lot of men who would die for him before they ever thought of betraying him. The Liddle who Bran met is a prime example.
It shows when the Bolton’s are installed in Winterfell. The Northmen who ride with Stannis don’t just want the Bolton’s gone, they rise for the Starks. They rose for valiant Ned’s precious little girl, and they’ll fight for Rickon, for Bran, for whichever Stark returns to resume where Ned left off.
Ned’s legacy is the people who had faith in him, who were and are still loyal, even after his death. Petyr can’t grasp that because he doesn’t think like Ned does, but that’s not a fault in Ned, that’s a fault in Petyr, and others like him.
If Tywin dies before the series start does Tyrion get the Rock? He is never formally disinheirit. Would Kevan take it? Cersei move to get it for Tommen?
Unless Cersei manages somehow to convince Robert (and Jon Arryn) to take it from Tyrion, or simply has Tyrion killed, Tyrion gets it, yes.
If Daeron the Drunk and Aerion Brightflame both survived past Maekar’s death, would a Great Council still be called? And would there be anyway for Daeron to get Aerion out of the line of succession? Maybe marry Vaella to Egg’s oldest?
1. No. A Great Council’s purpose is to settle questions of succession in the absence of a clear heir. But there was no ambiguity as to who would succeed Maekar with Daeron officially recognized as Prince of Dragonstone so no need for a Great Council. The succession is clear as day.
2. It’s fairly hard to drop someone off the line of succession without probable cause, and it might even provoke a war. The easiest way to prevent Aerion’s kingship is for Daeron to provide a male heir to push Aerion down the line of succession. He (or Bloodraven) can always arrange for Aerion to be discreetly assassinated as well – some poison in his food to pass it off as a natural death. Or Daeron can just survive till Aerion’s madness drives him to drink wildfire and solve the dilemma for him.
3. Marrying Vaella to Duncan accomplishes nothing because Vaella wouldn’t be inheriting the throne under any circumstances. The precedents of the Great Council of 101 and the Dance of the Dragon
would see to that and her disability would only further the dismissal of her claim. In the absence of a trueborn son of Daeron’s, Aerion remains his heir.
Is there anyway that Viserys could have gotten rid of Aegon the Unworthy
legally? For the love of Mike, he sent his son on fake diplomatic
missions to keep him from raping his sister to death. Pull a Tarly and
send him to the Wall?
Not without starting a war and probably bringing a significant political backlash on Viserys (see the above link). It’s far easier to poison Aegon tbh. Question is: was Viserys willing to become a kinslayer and kill his own son?
Sam speaks 