@sothinky
replied to your post “One thing that A Random Killing made very clear to me is that the…”

There’s a Memento-like quality to it all (we’re watching that again right now in the Lit as Film class, so it’s on my brain). In Memento, you’d get a five or ten minute scene told in a linear fashion, then the next scene jumps further back in the timeline, but is told in a linear way too. Here we’ve got a whole episode (at least this most recent one).

I’ve never watched Memento though I’ve seen ACS compared to it several times in reviews. The thing about ACS is that the story is always solid and really painful when they are not juggling multiple periods. A Random Killing is great because the flow of the story was not disturbed and it did not keep distracting me with jumps which allowed the emotional scenes space to land properly. I wasn’t distracted by timeline gimmicks and was completely focused on the characters. I’m equally interested and wary about the next couple of episode because the TrailMadson murders are so intimately personal to Cunanan and I hope they are given the same treatment as Miglin’s.

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@ipwarn

replied to your post

“One thing that A Random Killing made very clear to me is that the…”

Agreed. It’s lessening the impact of a lot of the scenes and making it way too confusing for the casual viewer. So unless they wanted to make something just for us super fans they missed their mark a little.

Eh, I’d argue that it’s still confusing for us superfans, though it’s no way near as confusing as it’s gotta be for casual viewers. I’ve been keeping up with the podcasts and there’s a lot that goes over their heads due to the confusing timeline. I think it’s telling that even (some of) their themes only get clear in retrospect, which puts too much strain on the viewer who is already trying to connect the happening of each episode to the previous one and figure out when some scenes take place. That only serves as a distraction from the story and the message they are trying to send about homophobia. It gets too chaotic when there is no reason for it to.

korydweninterim

replied to your post  

“One thing that A Random Killing made very clear to me is that the…”

interesting. I haven’t watched the episode from
last week yet (i’m waiting for someoen to tell me how gory/graphic it is
because I already had to stop looking at the scene in the second
episode with that man in the hotel room) but now i’m thinking i probably
should just wait for all eps to be out and watch it all backward      
           

I’ve seen it said that you either really love the structure or you absolutely loathe it, so it really depends on where you fell on that spectrum with the previous two episodes. Personally, I’ve elected to watch it as it airs then watch backwards because the finale can not be watched as the first episode. That’s how they are going to play with the timeline again. We’re going to go through David Madson and Jeff Trail’s murders (and I’m interested how they are going to tell that in reverse since David was a witness to Jeff’s murder. That part can get confusing and/or repetitive really quickly) then we’ll see Cunanan’s family life and his father’s abandonment then his childhood. But the finale has to return to current time to handle the hunt after Versace’s murder and Cunanan’s suicide. So it’s still not as cut and dry as watch the last episode first. You might want to see the narrative as a whole to decide which episode to see before which.

(And that just goes to confirm what an absolute mess that reverse telling is. JFC)

Um, Miglin’s murder occurs around the 23rd minute and lasts about three minutes, iirc. You might want to stop watching once Cunanan takes Miglin to the garage and fast forward because it’s hard. There is a fleeting shot of his body after the police arrive that shows his bloodied torso but you mostly struggle to see what it is they are showing exactly. You just register something covered in blood. Then there is the William Reese murder, I don’t remember when it happens exactly but once the guy is on his knees in front of Cunanan, fast forward. He is shot execution-style mid-sentence. Other than that it’s all just tense atmosphere and ominous settings.

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riana-one

replied to your post

“One thing that A Random Killing made very clear to me is that the…”

The structure makes it very slapdash but the acting geez I got shivers.

You didn’t tell me you started watching!!!!

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The second episode confused the hell out of me to the point where I completely missed parts of it because I was too invested in trying to figure out when something was happening which left frustrated and unable to enjoy it. On rewatch, it was a rather great episode in terms of story and acting but the jumping made it too messy. Episode 3 landed much better because it was linear but the overall structure of going backwards to the first two murders still feel jarring and, frankly, unthought through. I’m not sure what purpose that backward storytelling serves tbh.

But all the yeses on the acting. That is one hell of an amazing cast. There are several moments where it’s the performance that enabled me to shake the displeasure of the timeline just because the actors are so damn good they drag me back into the story. The acting is consistently wonderful across the board, from the regulars to the one-episode guest stars.

honeysucklepink

replied to your post  

“One thing that A Random Killing made very clear to me is that the…”

 
Can I point out that the whole “tell it in
reverse”  was the idea of a fuckin FX executive?!?! Like, I don’t think
they would have considered it if not for that guy. Fuck that guy.      
           

I know! And it does sound like he was like “you know what sounds really cool, guys? Reverse chronology” But honestly, that cool factor probably appealed to Ryan’s inner chaotic. Remember that tale from Glee when Ryan would just come up with A Thing and tell them to incorporate it into the show? That randomness that gave us “the tribute to orange”. LOL

One thing that A Random Killing made very clear to me is that the reverse chronology is doing more to hurt the show than benefit it. I’ve had my troubles with all the jumping around and the confusion it leads to but it wasn’t until this episode that I just threw in the towel and admitted that yes, this just does not work. It unnecessarily complicates the narrative in places and actually diminishes the impact of some of the scenes. For example, that scene with the older gentleman in Manhunt could have been elevated so much if we’ve had Lee Miglin’s murder beforehand to frame Cunanan’s actions. On its own it was a bloody excellent, if chilling, scene but it could have been so much more powerful if we’ve had the background of Cunanan’s using the duct tape in Miglin’s murder. We’d have felt more for the john that Cunanan terrorized too, beyond basic empathy, if we’ve associated what Cunanan has done to him with the heartbreaking Miglin who we got to know as a person that evoked a deep sense of empathy and sympathy. The commentary about the dangers of the closet and how vulnerable it made both men to Cunanan is also much less effective without Miglin’s murder to frame it. Granted A Random Killing now reframes that scene in Manhunt and infuses it with clearer themes but that’s an unnecessary convolution.

Another thing that this structure muddies up is some of the commentary about how the authorities fucked up Cunanan’s chase. In Manhunt, Agent whatshiface tells Det. Lori that Cunanan targets
older

closeted wealthy homosexuals and it’s really a point to notice that the only
person that description fits is Lee Miglin. The other two non-random
killings thus far, Jeff Trail, David Madson, do not fit the victim
pool that the FBI gave the Miami police. But it’s harder to notice that on the show because the
same episode that gave this description witnessed Cunanan actually
targeting a closeted older wealthy gay man and the next episode was the
murder of one. Versace is also close enough to that, except the closeted
part, that the discrepancy slides by unnoticed. It’s only with Trail
and Madson that you’d go “wait a minute, they don’t fit that” and realize that it makes no sense for the police to be focusing only on closeted older gay men when three out of four victims do not fit that description. Except that would
come a full month after we’ve been told of who Cunanan’s targets. That’s a long
time for your audience to notice much less remember that part

Finally, the relatively linear timeline in ep 3 made me realize just how much energy I was putting into trying to keep up with the jumping around in the first two to try and figure when something is happening (which, according to a lot of the post-episode reviews, is apparently a widespread problem. I’ve seen people confuse the timing of the conversation between Versace and Antonio outside of the nightclub as one that took place years before Versace was killed. And while that’s too extreme to fully blame on the show (since Cunanan was right there the very next scene), it’s still a testament of the unnecessary confusion alternating between several time periods per episode on top of the reverse chronology causes). That confusion and the constant need to be thinking of the details of the previous episode to link to the current one detracts from the coherency and the impact of the narrative which ultimately hurts the show. I also don’t see what that structure adds to the story to make up for that confusion or to justify their need to tell the story backwards. I guess I don’t understand their purpose in doing so other than it being theoretically cool, which frustrates me because the story is great, the acting is superb and I’m really enjoying the episodes but the structure keeps interrupting the flow of the story and keeps the show from reaching its full potential.

Was Tywin a shitty parent to Jaime? It is undeniable about Cersei and Tyrion, but I don’t really see how he mistreated Jaime as a child. The only moment that comes to mind is when Jaime tells him he will remain in the Kingsguard in asos. Thank you!

turtle-paced:

Yes. Tywin was abusive to all three of his children. Jaime had it the easiest, since he was more or less what his father expected him to be and didn’t chafe so much in the role, but when he was in Casterly Rock, he lived in an abusive household, and being the abuser’s favourite doesn’t mean he escaped unscathed.

Going to put this under a cut.

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@secretlyatargaryen
replied to your post “@catyuy
replied to your post “If Tywin dies before the series…”

I agree that it would not benefit Robert politically but I’m not sure he was friendly with Tyrion. Tyrion says he kind of liked Robert in a dismissive sort of way, probably mostly because Cersei hated him. But I don’t get the sense that Robert would like Tyrion or be friendly towards someone with dwarfism. I’m looking in the books and the most I can find is Ned thinking about Tyrion’s capture and that “Robert might not care a fig for Tyrion Lannister, but it would
touch on his pride” which implies Robert didn’t care at all about Tyrion.                    

I seem to remember a line about Robert and Tyrion drinking together but I can’t find it on asearchoficeandfire so I don’t know if I’ve conflated canon and fic. Mind you friendly is still a bit of an exaggeration even in that context but it was the best I could come up with to contrast Robert’s hatred of Cersei. I don’t think that Robert cared about Tyrion per se but he still allowed Tyrion to reside in the Red Keep so maybe friendly was the wrong word but I think there was perhaps a level of tolerance shown to Tyrion as opposed to Robert’s feelings towards Jaime and Cersei. That’s certainly still wrapped in both men’s feelings about Cersei – I reckon that Robert allowed Tyrion to stay partly because it angered Cersei but he was also known for his careless generosity.