I LOVE your takedown on Rhaeger and Lyanna’s ‘relationship’. The more I see/read about him, the more he reminds me of Joffrey. He starts out handsome and charming, but then we get to see the entitlement and manipulation (his actions leads to the Death of a Lord Paramount and his eldest son, he humiliates his intended and then sets her aside, doesn’t give one single shit for the consequences of his actions). The only consolation is that they both died choking and clutching their chests.

Hmm, on one hand, I see your point about the points of correlation (though I do not think that Rhaegar set Elia aside to go with the parallel to Joffrey and Sansa. That’s a show-only contrivance), but on the other, this is a very unfair comparison. The Targaryen that is truly paralleled with Joffrey is Aerys, not Rhaegar. Murdering a lord paramount in a sham of a trial, escalating the conflict into an outright war with no hope of conciliation, the crown promising leniency in Ned’s case and safe conduct in Rickard’s case only for JoffreyAerys to breach it, taking pleasure in hurting people, hating and deliberately humiliating their Hand (Tyrion for Joffrey, and Tywin for Aerys), sexually assaulting their Hand’s wife, etc. There is a reason Tyrion called Joffrey Aerys the Third in his pov in the books, and that’s because the similarities are numerous. But when it comes to Rhaegar and Joffrey, that’s a different story.

Comparing Rhaegar to Joffrey is extremely harsh imo, whether on a character level or based on how the characters were presented to us. Rhaegar, for all his stupid blunders and the heavy cost they had, did have a valuable purpose: saving the world. That does not absolve or excuse him by any means, neither does it make his actions defensible or acceptable or right, but I will give him the recognition that his intentions were not malicious. He was not acting out of a sense of entitlement that his crown allowed him to do whatever he wanted with no consequence (despite projecting exactly that to the rebels), but out of a misguided belief that magic would ensure that everything turned out alright and he only had to focus on actually making the third head of the dragon. Terribly short-sighted, unbearably dumb, callous and irresponsible his actions may be, but he did not do it to cause harm or pain, neither did he delight in subjugating people or killing them. He simply thought that the ends justified the means, and as long as he was after the worthy end of saving humanity, it was worth whatever measures he took to ensure it. In that, he is not at all different from Melisandre or Bloodraven, all three aspiring to a higher purpose and showing willingness to do whatever it took to get there on the belief that the goal makes their questionable means worth it, and that the coming fight would exonerate them.

That is in no way comparable to Joffrey who did think that his crown gave him the green light to do what he wanted and who internalized the Lannister ideology of fear and violence, which was not made any better by having an abusive father who gloried in violence. Joffrey had no higher purpose, no real motivation but to assert his power and feel kingly and strong. He was a sadist who found pleasure in subjugating people and causing pain, and who saw people below him as insignificant livestock. Joffrey routinely dehumanized people and found it empowering and satisfying to do so. He showed a degree of cruelty and of delighting in others’ pain that is simply not there in Rhaegar who, despite his many blunders and the toll they had, seems to have been a relatively decent person, albeit a dreamer willing to cross the line ~for the greater good~. But at least Rhaegar, unlike Joffrey, did have a greater good he was pursuing.

Rhaegar and Joffrey were also introduced to us in vastly different ways in the text. Joffrey was the handsome prince Sansa fell for pretty much immediately, the excellent match that was only belied by Lysa’s accusation that the Lannisters murdered Jon Arryn, but we got warning signs that this was not the case immediately afterwards, starting from Joffrey’s arrogant superiority with Robb in the training yard to his reaction to Bran’s fall to the incident with Mycah at Darry. From the moment Joffrey interrupted Arya and Mycah, none of us were under any illusion as to what that kid was, and he only got steadily worse from there. So while Joffrey was that handsome charming figure for a hot second, he quickly showed his true colors not even half-way through the first book, and continued to grow nastier as the books progressed. But the main thing about Joffrey’s story wasn’t about how the readership viewed him or even about breaking us from the opinion we formed about him – the truth about Joffrey came far too quickly and was alluded to before that for this to be the case – that was more about breaking Sansa from the illusion she built about Joffrey and what he was, not the readership.

But it is about the readership with Rhaegar. He was not introduced as a remotely nice figure, but as a violent rapist who carried off Lyanna out of personal pleasure and incited a war that cost Ned nearly his entire family.

But as the story progressed,

Robert emerged as an unreliable narrator

and a hypocrite with a tendency to romanticize and alter narratives to fit his
view, and Ned’s lack of animosity towards Rhaegar was noted, which was a pretty clear neon sign for us not to take Robert’s
story at face value, which some took as evidence that the true story is
the total reverse of what Robert said it was, and that perhaps Jorah and Dany’s account of the noble Rhaegar was much closer to the truth, despite both Jorah and Dany being even more of unreliable narrators than Robert.

But of course, Jorah’s and Dany’s truth –
later supported by Barristan Selmy – was that Rhaegar loved Lyanna and
died for her, which falls right in line with courtly love conception of
romanticism that tends to absolve the characters on the grounds of love
being so pure that it makes up for everything else.

Also, note that the one person who disparaged Rhaegar died in book one, and
since then we’ve had nothing but people who romanticize Rhaegar and are
invested in the idea that he did no wrong, or that if he did, it was out
of love and love forgives all. For multiple books, the
narrative only tells us that Rhaegar died for the woman he loved, and that “Prince Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna”,
and other similar sentiments. Rhaegar crowning Lyanna at Harrenhal
(something straight out of a chivalric romance), taking her away from an
unwanted marriage, and dying on the Trident with her name supposedly on
his lips paints a rather romantic picture. Even the imagery used by the
narrative is romantic:
“rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and
he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a
woman’s name”. It’s all terribly tragic and terribly romantic. It’s not
hard to see why many people believe in that version of the story, had
come to expect it even, and have come to analyze Rhaegar’s action
through that lens, even though it still does not change the power
imbalance in the story, or the glaring consent issues, or Rhaegar’s
political stupidity. So Rhaegar’s image actually started as very bad and steadily got more and more romanticized as various characters added to the description of the chivalric prince. It’s only when you look closer and beyond the usual romantic tropes that the glaring flaws in that narrative emerge, and you notice that the actuality of Rhaegar’s actions, even if they were solely out of love which I highly doubt, are disturbing.

That does not mean that there is not an in-universe disillusionment coming, but I’m not sure how much it would revolve around Rhaegar. Dany is going to have to face the truth about her family and the rebellion at one point, but how much that pertains to Rhaegar’s image in her eyes, I don’t know. For better or for worse, and no matter what Rhaegar’s motivations were, the fact remains that Dany already knows that he insulted Elia publicly and that he made off with the intended of another lord paramount. Believing it was out of love gives this story a noble veneer in Dany’s eyes, but so would the revelation that Rhaegar was trying to save the world, which makes me wonder whether Dany would fully grasp the ramifications of Rhaegar’s actions, especially with her romanticizing tendencies (though who knows what will happen when Jon discovers his horrific origin story and how that reverberates through whatever relationship he has with Dany at the time) But I fully believe that Dany’s disillusionment would be mainly about the collapse of the image Viserys sold her of Aerys and the nature of the rebellion, to parallel Sansa’s own revelation about Joffrey and who the Lannisters truly are.

Whether Dany’s revelations would solely be about Aerys, though, with the part about Rhaegar being kept for Jon’s own story remains to be seen. Hell, whether GRRM would actually address the consent issues in the story of Rhaegar and Lyanna remains to be seen. I do have my fears tbh because his track record in dealing with consent is not exactly the best, and he has been known to play his tropes straight.

jonsnowsource:

Had his bastard brother Jon Snow fallen from the Wall? […] In his wolf dreams, he could race up the sides of mountains, jagged icy mountains taller than any tower, and stand at the summit beneath the full moon with all the world below him, the way it used to be. – Bran IA Clash of Kings.

In the cold night air the wound was smoking. “Ghost,” he whispered.[…] He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold… – Jon XIII, A Dance with Dragons.

Contrast & Parallels: Daenerys Targaryen and Jon Snow

oadara:

Both of their father’s died before they were born.

Both of their mother’s died giving birth to them.

Both were sneak away to a geographically opposite location from the one they
were born in order to keep them save from those who would harm them (Jon went
from South to North and Dany from West to East).

Both grew up emotionally abused by someone close, Dany by
her brother Vuserys and Jon by his stepmother Catelyn (Dany’s abuse was greater of course, Jon’s was more neglect).

All Dany had was her name and her brother, she had no
home and no security. Jon did not have a name but he had
a family, a home and security.

One was educated by Maester’s and Master at Arms (Jon),
the other one was mostly self-thought with some education by her brother (Dany).

Both are methodical but in completely different ways, Jon
is more analytical and Dany is more intuitive.

Both are described as highly observant, especially throughout AGOT.

At the beginning of their arcs they both embark on adventures. Jon
goes North to the Wall and Dany goes East towards the
Dothraki Sea.

Both receive/find their magical companions at the beginning of their arcs.

Both of the magical companions are the alpha’s of their pack. Ghost the wolf is
white with red eyes, Drogon the dragon is black with red eyes.

Both have dreams about their animal companions.

Both reluctantly join cultures that are considered barbaric by others. Both are
forced into a relationship from a members of these barbaric cultures. Both fall
in love with these “barbarians”. Both are indirectly responsible for
the deaths of their lover’s.

Both think of these lover’s often well after they have died (especially
throughout ADWD).

Both have resided in extreme climates. Dany in the
dessert of the Red Waste and the heat of Slaver’s Bay and Jon
at the Wall and beyond the Wall.

Currently, one is in the South and one in the North, one is in the East and one
is in the West.

Both long for home and the family member’s they didn’t know.

Both encounter abandoned cities in ACOK (back to back chapters Daenerys I &
Jon II) described as white cities, Whitetree and Vaes Tolorros.

They both come to leadership at a young age.

Both try to change long standing institutions, Dany is
trying to abolish slavery while Jon is trying to change
the Night’s Watch

Both are trying to right wrongs committed by their ancestors, Dany
is fighting slaver with her dragons, where once upon a time the Valyrians used
their dragons to enslave people. Jon is trying to bring
the Wldinglings back into Westeros while once upon a time it was the north lead
by the Stark’s that left the Wildlings beyond the wall and kept them there.

Both encounter great resistance from the establishment, those who wish to
maintain the status quo.

Jon tries to change the system from within (as he is a
brother of the Night’s Watch and a Westerosis) Dany tries
to change the system as an outsider.

Both face many setbacks and become increasingly frustrated with their roles as
leaders.

They are both betrayed by said establishment and face assassination attempts. Dany is able to escape her would be assassins by flying away a
top her magical animal companion while Jon’s assassination
attempt is successful because he locked away his magical animal companion.

Both yearn for the child they cannot have, in ASOS Jon
lament that he will never have a son and in ADWD Dany laments that she will
never have a daughter.

Jon:

“I might someday hold a son of my own blood in my arms. A
son was something Jon Snow had never dared dream of, since he decided to live
his life on the Wall.”
When considering Stannis offer to become Lord of
Winterfell, which he rejects.

Dany:

“I will never have a little girl. I was the Mother of
Dragons.”

asoiafedit:

aegon vi targaryen and sansa stark parallels

She wasn’t a beggar, no matter what her aunt said. She was thirteen, a woman flowered and wed, the heir to Winterfell. // Sansa, A Storm of Swords

“Why should I go running to my aunt as if I were a beggar? My claim is better than her own. Let her come to me … in Westeros.” // Aegon, A Dance with Dragons