4.06 // 7.04 (requested by reallytallkid)

the notes are broken đ
Reblogging partly for awesome computer shortcuts, and partly because I wish to once again take part in a Post That Broke The Notes.Â
Why is Jorah on your shit list?
1) Almost 50 yrs old and is sexually attracted to a 13 yr old Daenerys, going as far as to force a kiss on her while sheâs naked
2) Feels entitled to Danyâs love and affection, that she owes him for all that heâs done for her
3) The whole reason behind his exile was that he was attempted to sell people into slavery so he can fund his wifeâs spending habits
4) in short, he is a nasty old man with a gross obsession with a teenaged girl and he sees himself as the victim of the made-up relationship he imagined between himself and Dany
Sorry for jumping in on your post, @lyannas, but I continue to be surprised that Jorah isnât on everyoneâs shit list. Perhaps itâs a symptom of the severe bleaching the show has subjected Jorah to, but the fact that there are people who arenât sure why Jorah is hated continues to astound me.
The guy is a sexual predator, unrepentant slaver and an abuser. Thatâs who Jorah Mormont is.
Iâm not too fond of the fact that Team Dany does not really address the fact that Jorah is an unrepentant slaver now apparently aiding a slave
uprising like he isnât a part of the problem in the books, but they still paint a very clear picture of who Jorah is, and continue hammering it throughout the story. Jorah never shows any
remorse for contributing to the slave trade, and denies responsibility for his own actions by
pinning it all on Ned, and on Lynesse to a lesser degree. His problem is not that he dehumanized people or sold them as cattle, itâs that Ned held him responsible for his actions, and that Lynesse ended up leaving him after what he has done âfor herâ. Is it really any surprise that he then goes and makes use of pleasure slaves that look like Dany, or that puts Tyrion in chains, publicly making a
statement about Tyrionâs slave status and further dehumanizing him, long before they are both
captured?
Jorah does not show remorse for anything, not once. Even when he is discovered in his dealings with Robert,
he is rude and confrontational and clearly thinks he could manipulate Dany into
forgiving him and keeping him by her side. And when that does not work, he thinks he could buy her forgiveness by dragging Tyrion to her in chains. His so-called attempt to make amends is through enslaving another person, and dragging him to an unknown fate. Tyrion is not a human being to him, he is a means to an end, the end being him regaining access to his victim.
When it comes to Dany, Jorah heavily employs abuse tactics in an attempt to ensnare her. He does not just betray Dany but
actively and continually preys
on her. He does his damnest to manipulate Dany into relying on him
and him alone. He tries repeatedly to isolate her and establish himself as her only
connection and only informant about Westeros. He repeatedly speaks
against her trusting any man that isnât him till she calls him out on
it. Those are the actions of
an abuser. Moreover, Jorah projects the image of his wife onto
Dany; his infatuation with her is born out of him seeing Lynesse in her
because they look alike. He alternates between seeing her as a child –
his cub as Dany puts it – and as a woman he desires with all the fucked
up implications that that have. He sexually assaults her when she is
half-naked and continues to push her to accept his âaffectionsâ even
after she makes it perfectly clear that his advances arenât welcomed.
And this is where I donât get how people do not see the glaring parallel with Petyr Baelish and his own creepy infatuation and preying on Sansa, Petyrâs Cat 2.0 whom he masquerades as his daughter while desiring her and sexually assaulting her.
The text clearly sets a parallel between the two of them in their
creepiness, their attempts to groom their victims and isolate them, and their abusive behavior.
Jorah Mormont actively lies to Dany from the very start, purposely ignites her hatred of Ned for his own gain and self-validation, feeds her misinformation about the Rebellion, manipulates and abuses her, goes against the very thing she stands for, and then has the audacity to expect to be awarded her love in return. Honestly, he can go sit on cactus.
Was Cersei- Viserys ever a viable option in any scenario? There is a decade age difference which is more than Elia-Jaime (8yrs) or Jaime-Rhaegara (7yrs) which has been cited as a reason why these matches wouldn’t work.
I did not say it would happen. I meant that Tywin would try to make it happen and that his focus would be on that betrothal instead of JaimeRhaegara, though itâs important to note the difference between the three matches you mentioned. I argued against JaimeRhaegara because it was Rhaegara who would have had to wait for Jaime to grow up, and that was not in the best interest of Aerys and the Targaryen dynasty. Jaime would have been a liability that postponed the securing of the inheritance through a son of Rhaegara, but thatâs not a consideration in the case of Viserys and Cersei. The infant prince wasnât about to start having children any time soon, and Aerys was going to have to wait about a decade and a half for his heir to produce an heir of his own anyway, regardless of who he marries. Which means that Cersei would not be an unnecessary hindrance to securing the succession quickly in the way Jaime would have been.
Thatâs not to say that the age gap would not necessarily be a factor – a match between Cersei and Viserys meant that Cersei would be in her mid-twenties by the time Viserys was old enough to consummate a marriage. For someone looking to secure an alliance with Casterly Rock, that might not be a deal-breaker since Cersei was healthy and there was no reason to doubt that she wouldnât be able to continue to have children well into her thirties or even forties like grandma Marla, or great grandma Rohanne. Cerseiâs maternal grandma, Marla Prester, was already in her thirties when she married the much younger Jason LannisterâŚ. and ended up giving him six children. But of course, Aerys was not interested in an alliance with his âovermighty servantâ. As Iâve said before, I think a Lannister-Targaryen match would only be possible if
Aerys was dead, or a completely different character, and thatâs with or
without the age difference.
But allow me to make a point here about how age difference might influence a betrothal. As with everything related to betrothals, the significance of age difference depends on the circumstances of the match, and on the people making it. In a society where marriages are primarily used to make alliances, age might not seem like a pressing enough reason to refuse a dynastically advantageous match. As Oberyn Martell told Tyrion: âa difference of five or six years [was] little enoughâ. Indeed, the Princess of Dorne did not think it too big of an age difference when she proposed the matches to Tywin, but while age might have been played a role in Tywinâs refusal, I strongly believe it was the least significant factor among others ranging from dynastic importance to Tywinâs racism and ableism against both Elia and Tyrion. After all, Tywin Lannister raised the Princess of Dorne a 1617 age difference when he offered Tyrion for Elia instead, but Tyrion was not dynastically important, and the delicate brown Elia was only suitable for his reviled dwarf son, and definitely not for his golden heir, as far as Tywin was concerned.
But weâve seen match with significant age difference happen before, including the 16 years old Margaery wedding the 8 years old Tommen to secure the TyrellLannister alliance, much to Cerseiâs displeasure, and the 13 years old Tyrek Lannister wedding by proxy no less, baby Lady Ermesande Hayford for her lands. Those are only a few examples to show that age difference is not an automatic deal-breaker, it really depends on the circumstances because there is no definitive rule that governs betrothals in Westeros. Thatâs why you would find matches that contradict what another match established. The circumstances differ, the people differ, the political landscape differs, the familyâs objectives differ; these are all factors that make age gaps completely insignificant in some cases, and a major deciding factor in others.
Lea Salonga, Alex Newell, and More Join Once On This Island on Broadway
Lea Salonga (Miss Saigon), Alex Newell (Glee), Merle Dandridge (Greenleaf), and Quentin Earl Darrington (Cats) have joined the cast of the Broadway revival of Lynn Ahrensâ and Stephen Flahertyâs Once on This Island, producers have announced. The production will begin Broadway previews November 9 in advance of a December 3 opening night at the Circle in the Square Theatre.
Dandridge will play Papa Ge, Darrington will play Agwe, Newell will play Asaka, and Salonga will play Erzulie.
âIn casting the Gods that inhabit our island, it became imperative for me to break expectations and stretch beyond the bounds in which Gods are traditionally represented. It felt important that young people watching our production see themselves reflected back from the stage at them,â commented director Michael Arden in a press statement. âThe Gods are simply that: Gods. They are not bound by gender, race, sexuality or being human at all. Iâm so very pleased to be collaborating with these four artists exploring the important and timely themes of this musical through their unique and incredible abilities.â
Lea Salonga, Alex Newell, and More Join Once On This Island on Broadway
While we’re debating whether Jaime is on a redemptive or tragic arc, everyone and their mothers seems quite OK with the little brother who strangled his lover out of jealous rage and served a bard to the poor as stew, becoming one of the heroes of the story and pilot on Dragonair. How could he NOT be headed toward tragedy without the Writer conveniently shrugging off his past actions like whores and singers don’t really count? How would that be Team Smallfolk at all?
And Dany had common-born teenage girls tortured in front of their father in order to get him to give up information on the Sons of the Harpy, yet sheâs still pretty clearly presented as one of the storyâs messiah figures. I think this is something GRRM intends for us to actively struggle with, though of course YMMV in each case whether he succeeds. With Tyrion, I think all the dragon imagery in his plot points to him as one of the dragonriders for endgame (quoth GRRM:Â âThree heads has the dragon, yes, but the third head may not necessarily be a Targaryenâ). With Jaime, valonqar is what keeps me leaning toward tragedy, though itâs of course entirely possible that he ends up with Brienne or taking the black afterwards.Â
(For the record, not âeveryone and their mothersâ is a fan of Tyrion, I can point you to multiple people in the fandom who arenât.)Â
Also for the record, people can be a fan of Tyrion and not condone any of the bad things he does. I love Tyrion and Iâm not âquite OKâ with Tyrion strangling Shae or murdering Symon Silver Tongue, or any of the other bad things he does. Iâve defended Shae on this website.Â
And re: Symon Silver Tongue, I donât think Iâve ever talked about him before. I didnât know my Tyrion Stan Common Application was incomplete without a statement saying, âMurdering someone and serving them in a stew is Bad and I donât approve of this.â Truly, I thought that went without saying. My mistake.Â
In a Rhaegara AU, do you think that a paranoid Aerys would flip on the natural Rhaegara/Robert and cling to Tywin? In canon,Aerys was crazy about Tywin’s influence and tried to use his cousin Steffon as a leverage against him (the bride search etc)? Would we see Jaime betrothed to Rhaegara despite the age gap? Even with Viserys’s birth?
Who do you think would be most likely for Aerys to offer Rhaegaraâs hand
to of the great houses, if not Robert? Would Jaime have been a viable
choice?
To answer that question, we have to identify what Aerys would want in a bridegroom for his only daughter: 1) that he has Valyrian heritage, 2) that heâd be from a powerful family so that the crown can build a power bloc to counterbalance Steffonâs SA bloc, and 3) that he would not be someone that could threaten Aerysâ own throne.
The first requirement restricts us to only two Westerosi families with the exclusion of the Baratheons: the Velaryons and the Martells. A Velaryon would be the most likely candidate since heâd meet all three of Aerysâ requirements quite nicely; of impeccable Valyrian heritage and looks, the House that proudly boasts of being The Old, the True, the Brave would make for a more traditional nuptial choice for the Targaryens, and to a king who attached much weight to Valyrian blood and leaned towards traditional Targaryen marriage practices. Certainly, the presence of Lord Lucerys Velaryon, noted to be one of Aerysâ cronies IOTL, on the small council would not hurt the chances of getting one of the scions of his House married to the princess since Aerys was known to lavish honors on his lackeys, and since the king would be able to trust that his loyal supporter would not try to use the princessâ claim to usurp his throne. In terms of power, House Velaryon is a significant sea power with one of the strongest fleets on the continent that provide the majority of the crownâs royal fleet, though itâs unknown how many foot-soldiers they could field, or how much wealth they retained by the reign of Aerys II. Iâd say they were still pleasantly wealthy due to trade with the Free Cities, even if it was in no way close to the heyday of the Sea Snake, and due to Aerysâ own tendency to shower extravagant gifts and lands on those who pleased him which certainly only added to the wealth of the House of his loyal courtier. Itâs a solid match, even if I do not think itâs the most advantageous in terms of creating a power bloc against Steffonâs own (the Lannisters or some Reacher family like the Hightowers would serve him better in that regard) but itâs one that would appeal to Aerys.
As for the other Valyrian-blooded House, Iâd say that itâs highly unlikely that Aerys would arrange a match with House Martell. He might have married his heir to Elia IOTL, but I believe that was an attempt on his part to curb Rhaegarâs power by limiting the amount of support he could garner from his wifeâs family to then use to overthrow his father. Thatâs not to say that the Martells have no advantage to offer the crown: they are a prestigious Great House that has intermarried with the Targayens twice before making them a more traditional match, and theyâd offer a strategic advantage in forming a nice choke point around the Stormlands, alongside the Crownlands and the loyalist Reach if it comes down to war. However, Dorne is relatively weaker than most of the other Great Houses, and suffers a cultural divide from the rest of Westeros that makes the Dornish the target of racism and derision. This alliance would not offer Aerys the military advantage he seeks or help him solidify his political position, or be particularly accepted by the wider (racist) Westerosi society who would resent having a Dornishman as prince consort, and thatâs without taking into account Aerysâ own deep racism and prejudice against the Dornish. Oberyn was also already notorious for allegedly poisoning Edgar Yronwood by 273274, and Aerys might have worried that having the Red Viper in his court might not have bode well for him once Oberyn got a child on Rhaegara.
Those two Houses are the main candidates that fit the traditional Targaryen marrying practices that Aerys seemed intent on returning to, though itâs worth noting that there are actually other families with Valyrian blood in Westeros like the Celtigars who are rumored, in the current generation at least, to be quite wealthy but we have no info on the extent of their militarynaval power, or why they were never considered for unions with their Targaryen overlords as opposed to the other Valyrian-blooded House, the Velaryons. The Celtigars generally seemed a bit shut out of the Valyrian power bloc with only three Celtigars holding high offices for their Targaryen kings (to our knowledge anyway. We hardly have an extensive list of every person who served the Targaryens), and no Celtigar maiden ever marrying into the Targaryens (or vice versa). They did not seem as involved with the royal House which, compared to the Velaryons, seems a bit odd, especially since the Celtigars were allied with the Targaryens even before the conquest.
But back to questions of suitors. Any other potential matches for Rhaegara would have to make away with the Valyrian blood requirement (because we have no knowledge of any extant Targaryen lines other than that of Princess Rhaelleâs and Princess Daenerysâ.) and thatâs where Jaime Lannister falls. The lack of Valyrian blood is a strike against him from the get go, but how well does he fit the other two conditions? In terms of power, House Lannister tops the list of advantageous marriages. Their wealth and power is undeniable, and a marriage alliance with Casterly Rock would form a nice power bloc alongside the loyalist Reach to counterbalance the SA one. Strategically, the alliance can be used to harry the borders of the Riverlands and threaten the Stormlands from three directions if it comes to outright war. Itâs an excellent match, if it was not for Aerysâ mounting suspicion and resentment of Tywin. Even with his relationship with Steffon potentially on the rocks, I see no reason for him to suddenly trust the Hand whose overreaching power threatened Aerysâ own. An alliance with Tywin might curtail Steffon, but who would curtail Tywin? What guarantee would Aerys have that Tywin would not seek to depose him once Jaime and Rhaegara have a son? That would be getting out of the frying pan and right into the fire as far as Aerys was concerned.
And thatâs even assuming that Tywin would suggest the match. It seems like a no-brainer but Tywin was cautious when it came to his childrenâs hands, intent on holding off on betrothals till he could ensure the most fruitful match. The hand of a royal princess is most definitely the most valuable marital prize in the land, and Tywin could do a lot worse than having a Targrayen princess as the chatelaine of the next generation of Lannisters and adding more prestige and power to his House, even if she did not end up inheriting the throne. But Tywinâs main purpose in seeking a royal match was to have a future grandson on the throne, and that might have not seemed guaranteed in light of how Aerys and Rhaella were regularly conceiving and even produced three living princes, even if the infants still went on to die only a short time later. If Tywin betrothed Jaime to Rhaegara, only for Aerys and Rhaella to have a healthy male heir, heâd have missed on the chance of having a royal grandson. More importantly, Jaime was only 10 when Prince Viserys was born and so any attempted matches would have had to happen before that. Offering a 9-year-old as a viable match to the older princess simply was not tenable: Rhaegara would have had to wait at least few more years before she could start having children which was not feasible for a dynasty on the verge of dying out, or a paranoid king desperate for a leverage against a competing line. And once Viserys was born, Tywinâs efforts were better utilized in trying to secure a match between Cersei and the little prince.


















