Alright so I finally finished Fire and Blood. A few more notes on the second half of the book (the first half is here):

–
Viserys I’s ineffectiveness and unwillingness to do anything to settle
the matter of succession or even to mitigate the conflict is really
underlined here. He set up the theater for the Dance quite effectively
simply because he could not be bothered. Ugh.

– Targaryen succession continues to be muddled. Despite a few precedents that emphasize the principle that sons come before daughters inheritance. and even a couple of cases of uncles coming before nieces, we still see the argument that Rhaenyra being the oldest gives superiority to her claim. Later on we see further dithering and an arbitrary approach from Aegon III’s council when discussing who between Baela and Rhaena should be held as his heir. Even when the legal argument of primogeniture is brought up, everyone ignores that primogeniture includes girls too. I will say that the assertion that either of their children, if male, would become Aegon’s heir at once gives credence to the idea that Prince Aemon’s heir was really expected to be his grandson rather than his daughter Rhaenys’.

– Rhaenyra being Targaryen on both sides is also brought up to support her claim. That’s the tradition of keeping the bloodline pure being brought into the political sphere. Keep the principle of having legitimacy from both parents in mind for that will be brought up in the Blackfyre rebellions.

– Nice mention of how a substantial numbers of lords and ladies did hold their vows to Rhaenyra as heiress. That was largely skipped in previous material with only Lord Beesbury speaking of previous vows.

– There is a bit more objectivity in Gyldayn’s writing of the Dance than Yandel’s (though that’s a very low bar). Though both perpetuate Septon Eustace’s biased views of how Aegon was only a reluctant claimant of the throne out of self-defense, and of how Rhaenyra was “rejected” be the Iron Throne once she sat it, Gyldayn at least acknowledges that Eustace had no love for Rhaenyra in a part that makes it clear that personal feelings color reporting of this period. He also doesn’t shy away from detailing the atrocities the greens committed as well as the blacks, while Yandel’s reporting was lopsided. That said, there is still clear bias against Rhaenyra. Gyldayn poses no opposition to attempts to make Aegon look better, whereas attempts to make Rhaenyra look better (her reaction to Jaehaerys’ murder being the reason she wasn’t at the war council) first gets the mention of how Munkun wrote his account years after the Dance then gets immediately disputed by the idea that she was absent because she was grief-stricken by Luke’s death, not Jaehaerys.

– It’s a circle of escalating atrocity between the greens and the blacks. Screw both claimants honestly. Both are awful and both needlessly prolong war at points of victory just to sate their vengeance. Meanwhile, I weep for the Velaryon princes. I weep for Aegon’s
children. I weep for Princess Rhaenys, Daeron the Daring and poor
Helaena.

– Interesting tidbits in how First Night was employed more often on Dragonstone. Ugh at the entire paragraph describing the “blessed” mothers and the “happy” bastards. Also, I call bullshit on the part about Targaryen lords celebrating those births with gifts and lands. What a divide from Jaehaerys I describing fathering children on new brides by Targaryen lords as not something to boast of.

– Of course the “ugly mud brown” dragon was claimed by the WoC. Sigh.

– I like the discussion of how Rhaenyra’s ascension could influence laws of inheritance. Corlys Velaryon’s argument was basically another Doctrine of Exceptionalism. Very smart.

– The Pact of Ice and Fire gets detailed with Rickon Stark and Prince Jacaerys’ first daughter being the subjects. I wonder if Cregan ever sought to have it fulfilled with one of Aegon III’s daughters?

– That is two Stark lords who showed appreciation for non-traditional women. Too bad appreciation is as far as it gets. Because god forbid a woman holds Winterfell. What blasphemy.

– The same quandary of socially-accepted honor not falling in line with the right thing presents itself with Cregan’s reaction to Aegon II’s death. That was solved neatly by having the one person who did care about the realm off the hook by the machinations of Baela, Rhaena and Black Aly. Still, Cregan cast too wide a net and condemned men who shouldn’t have been. Perkin the Flea and Larys Clubfoot can rot in hell though.

– I love Marilda of Hull. I love that Alyn Velaryon’s sea talent came from both sides of the family and was likely far more informed by his mother than his purported grandfather.

– I’d like to know who came up with the idea of Rhaenyra’s standard because it is excellent. Quartered standard with the Arryn sigil to underline maternal lineage since that’s the basis on which she’s passing the throne to her sons, and the Velaryon sigil to underline her three eldest’s purported paternity and court the Sea Snake.

– Ooh, that so-called prophecy about the dragon and the hammer is interesting. Did Rhaegar ever come across that? Did he safely discount it? Inquiring minds want to know.

– One of the most interesting parts of this book is the stories of the women in charge who stepped in ably after the men died. See, this is what makes me so frustrated – Martin writes amazing stories for women (it was the women who really ended the Dance, dammit). He writes amazing women. But then he peppers his canon with stories about how jealousy – often over a man – defines familial female relationships. Everything about the Baratheon sisters is just ugh. Ask me how fed up I am with the story of Maris Baratheon (and that implication that it was her that provoked the shed of first blood in the Dance. Uh huh, it’s not like Aemond was chomping at the bits to avenge himself on Luke, actively tried to provoke him into a fight, and had to be pried off him in Storm’s End courtyard. Nope, he needed Maris, who was of course motivated by him choosing one of her sisters over her and by jealousy of her sisters’ beauty, to go after Luke.)

– Aaand Cregan Stark not only expresses the sentiment that has been keeping the Blackwood-Bracken feud going for years, but his solution is pretty much the same as Jaime’s “kill the sons too”. And here we have the bloody side of the Starks to disabuse anyone from the notion that all Starks are Ned Stark. It’s not a good look to have a similar principle to the Lannisters, man.

– I can read a whole novella about Baela Targaryen (gosh I love her), Alyn Velaryon (that exchange about their baby’s name is so precious!), Coryls Velaryon, and Ben and Aly Blackwood. I have adopted them. They are my precious.

– Which idiot suggested Racallio Ryndoon or Dalton Greyjoy as matches for Baela?

– So Benjicot Blackwood, 13, is pointed out as a “conspicuous omission” from Aegon III’s regency council but Alyn Velaryon,16, gets rejected as a successor to the Sea Snake’s regent position and that’s “understandable” on account of his age. He is later being “flamboyant” while presenting the returned Viserys.  Uh huh.

– I do live for Alyn’s sick burns. The elephant comment made me cackle. Also, don’t think I don’t see what you did in wedding Baela, Alyn.

– Unwin Peake is the proto Tywin Lannister. Far less interesting though.

– Peake’s treatment of Aegon III is not only appalling but also idiotic. You get a boy king who you can mold into a loyal friend ensuring a lifetime of favor. Instead he actively ignores all of Aegon’s wishes, openly belittles him, has his only friend beaten and abused to put him in line, put the knight who played a big part in his mother’s demise right in his face and instigate a conspiracy that takes the life of his only friend among other deplorable acts. Boy kings don’t stay boys forever, asshole. I hope you have a terrible end.

– Sooo what happened to Alys Rivers and her son?

– Everything about the Maiden’s Day ball makes me wanna gag, none more than the dehumanizing name given to it afterwards. However, Anya Weatherwax with her horse Twinklehoof is too precious. Shut up, Peake. Barbra Bolton seizing the opportunity to speak of her people’s struggles (and implicitly condemn the crown for throwing a party while people are starving in the North) is a rousing move.

– The Unlucky is too mild a moniker for Aegon III. He breaks my heart. It’s clear that he is quite smart, compassionate, endearingly awkward and loyal. He is also traumatized to high heavens and plagued by adults with not an ounce of sympathy or compassion for him. After the Dance, after the regency, I see why he didn’t care a whit for his lords.

– The attitude against the Rogares though. Yikes. There are legitimate reasons to be against them but being whipped for the grand crime of being Lyseni speaks for itself.

– Interesting tidbit about how inheritance works on the Iron Islands – in the absence of rock sons, lordship passes to a man’s salt sons, essentially bastards, rather than his brothers.

– The casual misogyny in Martin’s writing persists. Some things I’m willing to swallow on account of in-universe misogyny and bias, but others are simply an easy or convenient choice on Martin’s part, an “interesting” plot device. The women’s stories are drenched in sex – some don’t even have a story beyond their sexual experiences.
We get an unsolicited discussion of Nettles’ virginity. A meaningless and unnecessary rumor about Rhaenyra giving Alicent and Helaena to a brothel. What did that add to the narrative and why is it there exactly? An abundance of mothers who
retreat and stop functioning at a child’s death while the men get to be
political, furious and vengeful in response. Child brides. Childbirth
deaths. Wanna hear about the poor unnamed Peake daughter who died in
childbed at twelve?

But where I feel Martin really outdid himself is where nursing and pregnancy get sexualized (what the hell kind of phrase is “I can feel his fires licking at my womb”?). Burning to death gets a gendered treatment too apparently. See, men burn and blister and turn to ash. But women get to “dance in gowns of fire, shrieking as they burn, lewd and naked underneath the flames”. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK. Why are you including allusions to sex in a description about a horrific death, Martin?

I’m tired and frustrated. Too many examples of misogynistic writing cover my notes. I’ll rant about this properly later.

lucy8675309:

Most festively dressed

#we are assuming he already had that outfit right?#or else this is Legend’s personal punishment for Darren winning the Emmy

The first is a very reasonable conclusion because Darren, but the second is endlessly amusing to me. I pick door #2

I would love to hear your thoughts about Fire and Blood when you finish it! (Or not even when you finish it, just whenever, cuz you’re amazing!) 💕

I have the best friends in the world! Love and hugs, lady.

I am halfway through and I intend to go back and reread each chapter once I finish since I keep blowing through pages because I want to know all the things, which is not very good for proper processing. But a few of the things that jumped at me so far:

(spoilers for Fire and Blood volume 1 under the cut)

1. Gyldayn seems more rambly and prone to ponder sexual scandals than Yandel. He spent waaaay too much time talking about that, and while sexuality is at the heart of some conflicts, the way he went on about the story of Coryanne Wylde and the sordid details of how she was “examined” really undermines his position as a historian and makes me overly iffy on him. Also, there are private conversations between Jaehaerys and Alysanne that I’d really like to know his source on.

2. Speaking of authors, what the actual fuck George? You’d think that in a book that goes so into detail about unconfirmed scandals he’d have the room to expand on someone like, idk, Argella Durrandon? He had the chance to make her story a bit better but he not only did he uphold her forceful loss of voice being the last we hear of her, he compounded the matter by also having Marla Sunderland’s tongue removed before she was packed off to the Silent Sisters. Literal stripping of women’s voices for defiance, by their own men no less, when it’s so unnecessary and so singular in its gendered use in the plot infuriates me. There is a lot of overlap between gender and silencing of voice in this (Argella, Marla, Ceryse Hightower, Rhaena Targaryen). UGH.

3. On the topic of women, Torrhen Stark’s daughter not only does not have a name, she is completely unmentioned in Jonos Arryn’s rebellion, nor by her nephew (?) Alaric with either Alysanne or Jaehaerys. Looks a bit peculiar since Alaric obviously brooded on the consequences of Targaryen decision for his family in the case of Jaehaerys and those he sent to the Wall, so is there any particular reason Torrhen’s daughter goes completely unmentioned even when the topic of marriage was raised and southern matches brought up, George?

4. Aegon, Visenya and Rhaenys are outright referred to as the three heads of the dragon. It’s no longer symbolic or understood but an explicit connection. That’s way too obvious for me to buy that Rhaegar’s Aegon and Rhaenys don’t point straight to a recreation of the Conquest Trio.

5. The war of escalating atrocities between Dorne and the Targaryens is terrible but I feel like there is a conscious effort to make the Targaryens seem better somewhat? The mention of them trying to negotiate at this point before actually utilizing dragonflame is weird because it is not consistent with anything in the Conquest. I don’t know what to do with that part.

6. The First Dornish War makes Daeron I’s folly in the conquest more obvious. Dornish terrain is as much an element to conquer as Dornish people and it costs a lot to manage it. Keeping conquered Dornish ground is bloody hard even with dragons. Daeron even leaves a Tyrell in charge just like Aegon.

7. Is it just me or does the Targaryen succession look weird in early days? Jaehaerys is referred to as the rightful heir by all rights then a few pages later it’s nope, Aerea is then suddenly we’re talking about Rhaena’s claim even though every reference to Targaryen succession before that points to a male-preference primogeniture. Alysanne takes issue with Jaehaerys treating Aemon as his heir over Daenerys even though Jaehaerys’ accession is tarnished based on that principle. There is a distinct vibe of seeing the son of Rhaenys the Queen Who Never Was as the expected heir of Aemon rather than Rhaenys herself (though this could partly because Princess Rhaenys and Lord Corlys wanted to put forward a potential male heir to offset Baelon being seen as the natural successor – since when was Baelon seen as the natural successor though? That apparently wasn’t only Jaehaerys’ sentiment so was that a popular view while Aemon lived or a reaction to Baelon avenging Aemon? Was Aemon aware and that’s why he made a comment to Rhaenys about liking a grandson, or was that regular era preference of male heirs?). Main takeaway though is that Jaehaerys passing over Rhaenys had nothing with extant competing claims but was about regarding Baelon as a natural successor for his gender, age and prowess. Jaehaerys pretty much didn’t even consider Rhaenys. Headdesk. You’re killing me, man.

8. I feel like the characters of Rhaena Targaryen and Alyssa Velaryon are being walked back. The point where apparently Septon Barth comments that Alyssa undoubtedly wanted to do the right thing but didn’t know what that was flies in the face of her previously established actions. I don’t like how she was taken down from an active and conscious political player, to a confused and almost secondary player next to Rogar (much preferred him when he was Robar, both the name and the person) till their final tiff, to  a womb and another casualty of childbirth with the emphasis being on her children. Rhaena may have called out the latter but the whole thing feels like a punishment for Alyssa for first opposing Jaehaerys and Alysanne then opposing Rogar. As for Rhaena, she swings between political sacrifice for the greater good to treating Jaehaerys and Alysanne with contempt for it. Resentment is perfectly normal and understandable but Rhaena surpasses that. She is purposely cast in an unfavorable light and her sexuality is strongly used to frame it.

9. There is a bit of exoneration after the fact to Jaehaerys sentencing most of Maegor’s Kingsguard to the Wall on contradicting arguments. I get his point about oathbreaking but punishing those who deserted Maegor because they didn’t uphold their vows to protect hum while also punishing those who didn’t desert him for defending and enabling a murderous usurper is extremely contradictory. That the two knights who deserted Maegor then deserted the Night’s Watch and a caused a conflict that claimed the life of Walton Stark neatly brushes this quandary off because it demonstrates that Jaehaerys was right.

10. I love how Septon Barth and Alysanne often work as a team in pushing Jaehaerys towards one policy or another. On more than one occasion, one of them makes the argument and the other comes with the definitive final strike. I love the women’s court and Alysanne’s Laws though I think there is a certain vagueness in the way Jaehaerys codified inheritance in the Widow’s Law. I’m still midway through Viserys I’s tenure though so I don’t know if this will be raised in any sort of legal argument for the Dance but it’s a non-issue so far.

11. I hate how Daella Targaryen was written. I hate how we keep adding names to the “death by childbirth” list. I hate how the child brides keep getting ignored. This is too conspicuous in the case of Daella and her daughter Aemma Arryn. Queen Alysanne held herself and especially Jaehaerys to blame for Daella’s death because she felt that, at 16-17, they wed her too early and that contributed to her death in childbed. But it’s treated like a non-issue that Aemma married Viserys at 11 and was bedded at 13.

12. I’m indescribably charmed by how Baelon the Brave got his epithet by booping a dragon on the nose. Also, the relationship between Aemon and Baelon, and Baelon and Alyssa. Too bad we can’t have nice things.

13. I already lost my shit over this in DMs with you but still, Aerea Targaryen! Aerea Targaryen! Oh my god. I was equally horrified and fascinated. A speculated trip to Valyria that resulted in the princess’ body being inhabited by “worms with faces” or “snakes with hands” made of fire and heat that cooked her body from the inside. This surpasses Valyria being a thin place or geophysically unstable. This means there is a Lovecraftian horror capable of using human bodies (and non-human bodies, Balerion was wounded as well but dragons are fire made flesh so that probably protected him) as vessels to… spread? Take over? Turn people into dragonic/fire abominations? Also, also, is that take over possible for anyone or is whatever is dormant in Targaryen DNA that tends to emerge with the use of magic in the form of babies with dragon-like qualities (though it appeared in non-magical cases) makes them more susceptible?

COMPARE TO THE OTHERS. A Lovecraftian horror made of ice and another made of fire.
Blood magic probably behind the creation (calling?) of both. We still
don’t know how the Others came to be and there has been legitimate
rebuttals to the show’s version of their creations BUT I think what
could be taken from the show is the suggestion that this is blood magic
gone wrong.

Both take over human bodies though differently (is this linked to living bodies being warm and dead ones growing cold? Is that why the fire-based monstrosity manifests in living creatures while the Others trades in dead bodies? The things beneath Aerea’s skin burst out either when they felt the cold of the ice bath the maesters put her in or when she suffered cardiac arrest and died. Either way it’s connected to cold)  The cosmic balance between ice and fire has deeper roots….. now I’m really curious as to the nature of the magic of the Wall that keeps ice and fire firmly separated.

14. We are slowly building a succession history for the Starks: Torrhen Stark -> son (?) Brandon -> son Walton -> brother Alaric -> grandson Edric -> Ellard of undetermined relation. That’s how as far as I got in the book but that’s too far from the Benjen Stark that starts the Stark family tree in TWOIAF. Cregan Stark was already Lord of Winterfell by 129 so that’s a period of 28 years between that and the Great Council that also fits the aforementioned Benjen and his son Rickon, Cregan’s father and grandfather.

15. I’m so not a fan of the art in this book. It ranges from blatantly inaccurate (Aemond and Luke during the Dance, SIGH), to exaggerated (Elinor Costayne is weird in that art with Maegor. Also, did she wait to react till she climbed the entire Iron Throne? And Jaehaerys was cool and measured in his response to Maegor’s supporters after landing in the Red Keep. WHY does he look like he is yelling in the art?) to weird (Which of the Black Brides is dressed like a septa and why? Why does Jaehaerys look like all of 8 at his coronation when he was actually 14?). Perhaps that’s a bit nitpicky but I’m not impressed tbh.

16. GRRM overdid it with Jaehaerys’ reign imo. There is writing conflict because peace and prosperity is dull to write, and there is cramming every possible conflict under the sun in the story. Was there anything missing? I count family drama, political intrigues, succession questions, plague, policy changes, financial crisis, winter, and mini-rebellions. He reigned for a long time so I get it but at one point it was one conflict after another that I’m having trouble reconciling what I read with previous descriptions of Jaehaerys’ reign.

17. There is a lot to talk about with Jaehaerys and Alysanne but I want to get the timeline straight and give it some more thought. But I will say that as delighted as I am with all the women in Alysanne’s story and with Jaehaerys and Alysanne’s relationship reflected in policy, it’s monumentally disappointing to read about his relationship with his daughters. There was an underlining gentleness in how he treated his mother Alyssa and Rhaena that was sorely missing with some of his daughters. I came out of this part feeling really off and unsettled. And sad. So very sad. WTF, Jaehaerys. Just WTF.

That’s my preliminary thoughts on the first half of the book. It’s mostly feelings with a side of unsubstantiated and unresearched spiraling. Politics, worldbuilding and themes tend to appear on later reads.

(Edit: part two is here)

Good morning. It’s Fire and Blood day. Happy reading and please remember to tag your spoilers. Some of us Narnians have to wait a bit longer for the book so appropriate tagging would be much appreciated. I’d also appreciate it if those who send me asks would refrain from including anything from the new book till I get it. Thank you and have fun reading!

Darren Criss on Getting Inside a Murderer’s Mind for ‘Versace’: “I Embrace Darkness”

d-criss-news:

At first glance, the FX series The Assassination of Gianni Versace: American Crime Story appears to be a narration of the tragic murder of an acclaimed fashion visionary — but beneath the surface, the series dives into the manipulative world of murderer Andrew Cunanan, who is notoriously remembered for killing not only Versace but four others in the spring and summer of 1997.

Helmed by executive producer Ryan Murphy, the nine-part series journeys through the trials and tribulations of Cunanan, portrayed as a once-promising young man whose conflicted feelings about his sexuality and infatuation with the unattainable wealth he saw all around him drove him over the edge. Though taking on the dark role was no easy feat, Darren Criss embraced its complexities and earned an Emmy in September for his efforts.

Criss, 31, spoke to THR about exploring the downward spiral of his character, what it’s like joining the elite class of Emmy winners and how social media might have changed the trajectory of a man like Cunanan.

You’re not only coming off of a successful run with American Crime Storybut you are now an Emmy winner. How does it feel?

Gosh, there’s too many adjectives! It’s exciting. It’s humbling. I think like most things in my life, I’m constantly aware of the fact that this stuff is very fleeting, which is kind of a twisted way to look at it. It helps you enjoy it more, but it also makes you dread it more. It’s this constant battle of always being so appreciative of what you have as a result of you knowing that it’s not always like this. But maybe my posture is a little taller. If anything less favorable happened to me in the last couple of weeks, I just have to sit there and say, “It’s OK! I have an Emmy!” It’s a nice reminder. I’m very pleased it happened for something I’m really proud of and had such a wonderful experience doing. It would be difficult if it were a negative experience or felt something like a false accomplishment. It doesn’t. I think all the boxes are ticked to make it a very positive thing. I just have to remember that that particular acknowledgment is for one particular thing in an isolated world. It’s not to do with everything else in your life. It doesn’t mean that you excel in any other field or any other job for that matter. It was an extraordinary feeling. It’s much bigger than myself and I feel so incredibly honored.

Keep reading

Darren Criss on Getting Inside a Murderer’s Mind for ‘Versace’: “I Embrace Darkness”

Had Duncan done his duty and not set a horrible example for his siblings, do the other betrothals get broken?

Maybe, maybe not. It was noted by Yandel that the then-prince Jaehaerys “did not fail to take note” that Aegon V and his court eventually yielded to older brother Duncan’s wishes so Duncan’s example was a solid example of how it was possible to defy the king’s marital designs and force him to accept a marriage he did not approve. That’s a nice backing to rely on that probably encouraged Jaehaerys and Shaera to elope. It might be that they wouldn’t be as assured of their plans if Duncan did not have his way, or wouldn’t think of openly defying their royal father like they did.

However,
Jaehaerys and Shaera had loved each other since they were
children, and they were noted to be as stubborn as their parents so it’s likely that they wouldn’t be discouraged just because of Duncan. Keep in mind that Jaehaerys would feel a lot less pressure to fulfill his betrothal if Duncan
acquiesced to his father’s wishes to set Jenny of Oldstones aside, since Duncan would remain Prince of Dragonstone instead of the title falling to Jaehaerys.
The elopement might still be a gross insult to the Tullys and the Tyrells, and counter-intuitive to Aegon’s politics and social norms, but it’s a bit less inflaming for the Tullys if they are not missing out on a crown for their daughter and future Tully-blooded kings. That this might make it easier for Jaehaerys and Shaera to act on their desires. After all, Aerys I stands as an example of how a royal prince got away with undermining a planned alliance largely because he was a second son so they might find inspiration there.

hi sam, love your blog xx why do you think ned didnt ask robert to legitimise jon snow – ik it probably has something to do with r+l=j but is there another reason? also couldn’t ned have told catelyn and jon about jon’s real parents and saved all 3 of them a lot of grief? how do you think that would have changed ned and jon’s relationship thank u in advance xxx

Greetings anon and thank you!

why do you think ned didnt ask robert to legitimise jon snow – ik it
probably has something to do with r+l=j but is there another reason?

This is a nonstarter for multiple reasons.
For one, Jon’s bastardy affords him a great deal of protection since
etiquette prevents questions about his parentage to emerge because it is
considered rude to pry into the origin of natural children.
It’s normal for men to father bastards in Westeros so no one blinks at
Ned claiming that he did; in fact it’s treated as a piece of juicy
gossip.

But if he
was to attempt to legitimize Jon, he’d invite scrutiny onto Jon and himself since
many would rightly wonder why he being so unorthodox with his bastard
son. It would definitely draw Robert’s attention to Jon which is
something Ned actively wanted to avoid. He really didn’t need Robert or
Jon Arryn looking too close at Jon’s origins.

On a personal note, such at attempt would annihilate Ned’s
relationship with Catelyn.
Legitimizing Jon hurts Cat on a deep personal level because she loves
Ned and was already haunted by the thought that he loved another so
deeply that he defied social norms for her child. Ned also loves Catelyn
and the inherent callousness towards her in the act of legitimizing Jon
would not only trash the loving relationship they had, but would
probably reverberate through the entire family as his children with her
were caught between their love for their brother and father, and their
love for their mother.

This irrevocably messes the family dynamic and would come at the cost of
several familial relationships.

As far as the politics of this goes, it should be noted that acts of legitimization are rare enough in Westeros
and when they do happen, it’s almost always in cases where there is no
direct heir to a house and succession is unclear. It is almost unheard
of for a lord to legitimize a bastard child when he has living
legitimate children and the one case where that happened with Aegon IV’s
decree to naturalize all his bastard children led to the Blackfyre
rebellions and generations of war. Which makes for an extremely
disconcerting example that bred a sociopolitical disinclination to
legitimize bastards, especially in the presence of trueborn
siblings. It is one thing to demand that Catelyn put up with Jon’s
presence in Winterfell but it’s another thing entirely to make such a
public statement about how much Ned favors him (to the possible
detriment of his other children) and elevate him to where he could
easily endanger Catelyn’s own children. Cat was already concerned about
Jon’s prospective danger and had the Blackfyres in mind, it certainly
would not help if Jon drew such a direct parallel to Daemon Blackfyre
through his legitimization and if she has to contend with legitimate
questions about what kind of message this might send to Ned’s bannermen
or whether this was a prelude to Jon supplanting Robb. One only needs to
look to Cat’s reaction to Robb’s decision to legitimize Jon for an idea
of how badly she’d react to such a move from Ned. Those were concerns
she lived with for years, since she came to the North as a
not-sure-footed outsider with her Riverrrun-born, Tully-looking son only
to find a Stark-looking baby already installed in Winterfell.

couldn’t ned have told catelyn and jon about jon’s real parents and
saved all 3 of them a lot of grief?

It is not that simple, alas. This is a very dangerous secret that Ned has to be very careful with. As he reflects…

Some secrets are safer kept hidden. Some secrets are too dangerous to share, even with those you love and trust.

He is not wrong here. I’ve always
thought that Jon deserved to know the truth, especially before he could
be allowed to sign his life away to the Night’s Watch, but I can see
where Ned is coming from. The more people know about this, the more
danger to Jon is and the more Ned risks exposure. Also, this is
information that directly puts anyone privy to it in danger too. It’s safer for everyone to keep this secret to himself.

Of
course, we can’t talk about the possibility of telling anyone without
taking Ned’s mental and emotional state into account. Revealing the
truth means that Ned would have to work through a lot of psychological
issues at a much faster pace that he was shown to be capable of,
in a society that has no grasp on things like trauma or how to help
someone work through it. More relevant, perhaps, is the question of how
that reveal might or might not change the state of affairs in Winterfell
since revealing Jon’s parentage is often accredited with being a
relatively easy fix to what issues arose from Jon’s presence there.
Personally, I think that telling Catelyn the truth is a monumentally bad
idea. It would certainly go a long way in alleviating Jon’s
internalized shame that was born out of Ned’s refusal to identify or
even talk about his mother, and in easing Catelyn’s hurt over Ned’s
supposed infidelity, but this reveal has plenty of political
ramifications that makes it almost impossible for Ned to tell Catelyn
the truth. Keep in mind that Catelyn’s main problem with Jon wasn’t
about her hurt feelings but rather about the political threat he posed
to her children. The truth doesn’t mitigate the danger Jon could pose to
Cat’s children, it makes it exponentially worse. Ned was committing treason
by harboring Jon fully knowing that Robert’s anger would be murderous
if he found out. Telling Catelyn the truth places her in a terrible
position where she is either made complicit in Ned’s treason and forced
to keep a secret she never signed up for (while perpetuating a threat to
her own children), or she has to sacrifice both Ned and Jon to save her
own children.

By telling Catelyn the truth, Ned would have placed
both her and Jon in danger. Cat by involving her in Ned’s lie, and Jon
by expanding the circle of those who know his identity and by making it
that his life could be the price of keeping Robb, Sansa, Arya, Bran and
Rickon safe. Indeed, Ned explicitly expresses his concern over what
Catelyn’s choice would be if it came down to Jon’s life against her own
children’s.

Ned thought, If it came to that, the life of some child I did
not know, against Robb and Sansa and Arya and Bran and Rickon, what
would I do? Even more so, what would Catelyn do, if it were Jon’s life, against the children of her body? He did not know. He prayed he never would.

Pulling back a little from the worst case
scenario, it remains certain to my mind that Catelyn would not react
well to the truth about Jon’s paternity. I can see her urging Ned to
keep the truth from Jon lest he get any ideas about launching a campaign
for the Iron Throne or any such crazy ruinous idea. I definitely think
she’d actively want Jon to join the Night’s Watch to neutralize his
prospective danger and she’d still want him away from Robb so that her
son wouldn’t get dragged into any potential conflict involving Jon.

how do you think that would have
changed ned and jon’s relationship

If Ned tells
Jon the truth? Depends on when he tells him I guess. Problem is that this
is not a piece of information that I can see Ned entrusting to a child.
It’s too precious and too dangerous so I don’t think that Ned would
gamble with Jon’s life by telling him too soon when a misplaced word at
the wrong time or in front of the wrong person could expose the truth.
That means that Jon would still internalize the idea that Ned was
ashamed of his mother or that he abandoned her, or that she
abandoned Jon. The truth also does not change the prejudice Jon faces as
a bastard and would increasingly bring some horrific realizations for
him. I think it’s a given that the truth would bring Jon a lot of pain
and sorrow for how it distances him from the identity he spent his
entire life dreaming of, and for how it “replaces” the father he loves
and respects with, well, Rhaegar Targaryen.
I don’t think he’d react well to the fact that Ned lied to him for so
many years, but at least the truth would come from Ned himself instead
of a third party like what will happen in canon. It’s a lot better
for Jon to hear this from Ned and to have him there to try to mitigate
the shock and the ramifications of that reveal. That could be really
substantial. Ned has acted as Jon’s father his entire life and
something as simple as reaffirming that, no matter his biological paternity, Ned is Jon’s father and the Starklings are
his siblings would go a long way in making the truth easier for Jon.
That’s extremely valuable for Jon’s emotional state.

And since telling the truth means that Ned had somewhat worked through
his trauma enough to tell Jon, it’s possible that he’d be willing to
share some information about Lyanna which would ease Jon’s deep wounds over not knowing anything about
his mother.